do you think ppl have the wrong idea about christianity???

[thinklikepink]

ok so heres the thing...people have this idea that all christians are weird jesus freeks........go to bible study, church every week, and youth etc

and ALOT of people if you asked them if they were christian theyld say no, and yet they believe in jesus and celebrate christmas....therefore they are christain but they dont evan know.

you dont have to go to church every week, or believe in abstinance and read the bible every night.
if you believe in jesus, god, then your christian theres no two ways about it.
all our laws and just basic general morals are based on christianty........yet ppl see it as a sterotype....along with jock, cheerleader, emo etc
its kinda weird

what do you think/do you all agree.

i mean in a way i gues maybe you need to be baptised, but thats kinda just a tecnicality to

[destinydreamer]

I don't believe you have to be baptised.
I believe that you need to believe that Jesus died on the cross to your save your sins, that he rose from the grave three days later, preached to his disciples, and then ascended into heaven.
As long as you "admit" that, "believe" in what I wrote about and "confess" it with your mouth, saying that you are a Christian, then I believe you've done the "abc"'s of becoming a Christian.
I believe you have to take those steps.

But, I believe the rest is up to you, entirely.

[j-blue-stars]

i do think they have the wrong idea lol
i believe its called being a christian because you believe in christ.. as in.. jesus christ..
and a lot of people DO misunderstand being a christian for being like someone who never does anything but go to church and stuff..
it kind of bothers me that people say theyre not christian cuz theyre some other religion ... they confuse the actual being a christian with being catholic.. ive noticed that they think its the same thing.. lol cuz being a catholic you ARE a christian.. but there are other religions that are christians too..
but yeah :P

[Sexy_Brunette]

Complicated subject..Need I say more?

[NancyDrew]

Yeah, I think people are often confused. For some reason, people believe you have to do this huge list of stuff to even qualify, but that's not the case. It's supper simple, but I guess it's be muddled over the years.

[stmx]

People have the wrong idea about religion as a whole.

Islam gets a terribly bad rap, as do Christianity and Judaism -- especially considering the three share a HUGE net of phophets.

My contribution :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

[dontwalkaway]

most people i know just sort of believe in god but don't go to church or really follow any of the bible on purpose, actually
there are 2 billion christians in the world, but i think less than half of them are serious about it

[NancyDrew]

I agree. That's so sad too. :(

[stmx]

Half is way too generous. Of the people that don't believe in God (there are the ones that have that mentality but are unwilling to go public about it), only a small fraction actually register on the census as atheists, but were raised Christian and register accordingly. Of people who were raised Christian, might not believe in anything as outlined by Christianity except maybe God (and Jesus).

Simply, 'Christian' is the easy answer, and 2 billion is a very, very padded number.

[Sexy_Brunette]

Of course they are confused--the term "Christianity" is way too broad, this alone leaves people open to a variety of religions that are included in the Christianity way. I guess it just depends on what you believe and what you agree and disagree with...Should I continue? XD

[niyomi10]

i sorta have to disagree.
they always seem surprised that people actually
go to church 3 times a week. its just that on here,
my religion is totally different then everybody else.
they always think were gonna shove Christianity
down their throats! i also do believe you should do
what the bible says about being baptized.

[NancyDrew]

That's what gets me. I'm not even going to do that. I don't even hardly talk about it just when challenged or whatever. Even then, I try to be respectful. I know beliefs are different, and it's a very touchy issue.

[jasondolleylover1]

the thing i don't understand is why peopple think that
Christians can't have fun. we have just as much "fun" aseveryone else!
sorry if that doesn't include drinking and getting high..
no one should be doing that crap.
ok so heres the thing...people have this idea that all christians are weird jesus freeks........go to bible study, church every week, and youth etc
and ALOT of people if you asked them if they were christian theyld say no, and yet they believe in jesus and celebrate christmas....therefore they are christain but they dont evan know.
you dont have to go to church every week, or believe in abstinance and read the bible every night.
if you believe in jesus, god, then your christian theres no two ways about it.
all our laws and just basic general morals are based on christianty........yet ppl see it as a sterotype....along with jock, cheerleader, emo etc
its kinda weird
what do you think/do you all agree.
i mean in a way i gues maybe you need to be baptised, but thats kinda just a tecnicality to
i think that you should be technically baptized
to procalim your faith for Christ.
most people i know just sort of believe in god but don't go to church or really follow any of the bible on purpose, actually
there are 2 billion christians in the world, but i think less than half of them are serious about it
the very sad statistic is less than 2% of Christians in the world
actually try to minister to other people
That's what gets me. I'm not even going to do that. I don't even hardly talk about it just when challenged or whatever. Even then, I try to be respectful. I know beliefs are different, and it's a very touchy issue.
totally.

[~*GirlzRule*~]

I think so.
Just because I'm a Christian people expect me to go to church every Sunday. My family doesn't do that kind of stuff, you don't have to go to church to be Christian.

[jasondolleylover1]

^^yeah that makes me mad

[dontwalkaway]

christians can drink, i don't know where people get the idea that we can't
you're just not supposed to drink to excess

[mileyrulz]

I think so.
Just because I'm a Christian people expect me to go to church every Sunday. My family doesn't do that kind of stuff, you don't have to go to church to be Christian.
yeah same here.

[thinklikepink]

thats the thing, the people at my school have like sterotyped christians as goody goods, and a whole lot fo other stuff. Its weird.

i now at my elementry they had this bible class in the morning for about 1/2 hour (kinda weird in a way at a public school)
but it also edjucates people, to know what christianity is and stuff.....if they had that at every school more people would be able to say their christian without the misconseption that its some other thing, that you have to fit the critea exact to be christian.

almost everysingle person who live in New Zealand celebrate christmas yet about %2 would actually say they are christian....its weird

[tanningbry]

you dont have to go to church every week, or believe in abstinance and read the bible every night.
if you believe in jesus, god, then your christian theres no two ways about it.
all our laws and just basic general morals are based on christianty........yet ppl see it as a sterotype....along with jock, cheerleader, emo etc
its kinda weird

what do you think/do you all agree.

i mean in a way i gues maybe you need to be baptised, but thats kinda just a tecnicality to

Why do you feel this way? That's not being a true Christian.

[NancyDrew]

See, I pratice a lot of the stuff I should, but I also do a lot of the things I shouldn't. I don't go to church every week. I try my best, but I know my ticket is stamped. I believe in Jesus and that's all the Bible says I need to do.

Somehow there's an idea that we need to be perfection. Ever heard the saying Forgiven not Perfected? Something like that anyway. :P

[mileyrulz]

That's not being a true Christian.
who are you to say that?

[*~MileyCyrus#1Fan~*]

I don't really see Christianity as a religion,
but a faith. Relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
I do think it's good to be baptised, you probably should,
and I feel guilty because I haven't yet..but that doesn't mean you aren't Christian..
I don't go to church, either, because it's where I am in my life right now.
There's nothing around where I live that seems to please my parents and I.
It's not really my fault.
Yes, I do think it's judged wrong, people don't really get it unless they're Christian, or however you want to think about it.
But everyone has their own beliefs, opinions, etc.
Not everyone is always going to agree.

[NancyDrew]

Great post! I agree! :thumbsup:

[dontwalkaway]

the whole goodie goodie thing is completely a misconception
so i won't have sex until marriage.... that's about it

[tanningbry]

who are you to say that?
I'm a Jehovah's Witness. And we read the Bible enough to know from the Bible's opinion that that's not the way to be a true Christian.

[Frumpy]

I think people have the wrong idea with this whole 'religion' thing. Sorry, just me being antagonistic.

[jasondolleylover1]

thats the thing, the people at my school have like sterotyped christians as goody goods, and a whole lot fo other stuff. Its weird.

cexactly. it should NEVER be that way
the whole goodie goodie thing is completely a misconception
so i won't have sex until marriage.... that's about it
ctotally agree
I'm a Jehovah's Witness. And we read the Bible enough to know from the Bible's opinion that that's not the way to be a true Christian.
i'm sorry, but there's other forms of Christainity
other than Jahova's Witness, so could you pease respect that?
thanks.
I think people have the wrong idea with this whole 'religion' thing. Sorry, just me being antagonistic.
what do you mean the ''wrong idea''?

[Bucky Kentucky]

christians can drink, i don't know where people get the idea that we can't
you're just not supposed to drink to excess

Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding and gave out wine during the last supper.

[jasondolleylover1]

^that was the point she was trying to make.

[NancyDrew]

Exactly. The Bible says nothing about it being wrong to drink. It just says Do not be drunk.

[jasondolleylover1]

and that's why most people are like, "they're goody-goodies!
they're not allowed to get drunk and have
fun because they're Christains!"

it drives me insane

[NancyDrew]

lol. I do a lot of stuff Christians aren't supposed to do. :P

[stmx]

It's all the same.
From the Qur'an :
Surah 3:55 - "Behold! Allah said: O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute."

[NancyDrew]

Well....I don't believe that. Yes, it has similiarties, but on the big important issues, it's different. Is that your belief? Just wondering.

[Frumpy]

what do you mean the ''wrong idea''?

Well...ummm...don't get angry at me (or do, I don't care), but I think religion is simply the most stupid, most ignorant, most uneducated, most mindless custom ever developed in the pitiful spiritually-desperate human brain.

[j-blue-stars]

See, I pratice a lot of the stuff I should, but I also do a lot of the things I shouldn't. I don't go to church every week. I try my best, but I know my ticket is stamped. I believe in Jesus and that's all the Bible says I need to do.

Somehow there's an idea that we need to be perfection. Ever heard the saying Forgiven not Perfected? Something like that anyway. :P
hm..
i kinda disagree with you on one part..
u said "my ticket is stamped" im guessing as in..u can do whatever and nothing will happen? :33: i guess.. thats partly true cuz god or jesus will forgive us because its why god sent his son to die for us.. cuz..of the sins and stuff but anyways... uhm.. its true that we are allowed to make mistakes and stuff.. but i think (well the way i understand my religion being a catholic and therefore a christian) is that god/jesus wants all of us to TRY to be the best persons we can be.. he doesnt ask for perfection.. be he wants us to TRY to be as he was.. like.. i kno i make a lot of mistakes and stuff.. but i dont think oh wel whatever im still going to heaven anyways.. im not saying that u shouldnt think that cuz i cant change ur mind lol but thats what im saying.. im not saying im right and ur wrong tho lol.. im just putting my POV in that part u said. i think all he wants is that we try to be the best person we can be.. and if we make mistakes we should ..like.. learn from them? and like understand that we've made a mistake.
(trying to be as respectful as possible)
but yeah. that doesnt mean that we CANNOT drink or do other stuff people do... i mean.. drinking isnt bad.. just as long as its not excess(sp)
then again. i dont mean to disrespect anyone's beliefs lol i was just stating my opinion on that.

I don't really see Christianity as a religion,
but a faith. Relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
I do think it's good to be baptised, you probably should,
and I feel guilty because I haven't yet..but that doesn't mean you aren't Christian..
I don't go to church, either, because it's where I am in my life right now.
There's nothing around where I live that seems to please my parents and I.
It's not really my fault.
Yes, I do think it's judged wrong, people don't really get it unless they're Christian, or however you want to think about it.
But everyone has their own beliefs, opinions, etc.
Not everyone is always going to agree.
yes :P

[dontwalkaway]

yeah, i don't do the things i do or not do because i want to get into heaven, i do it because i love my god and want to honor that.

[sharp_as-a_tick]

I haven't read all of the Bible. I haven't gone to church in like two years, but I watch it on TV sometimes - that doesn't mean I'm not a Christian.
I didn't even start reading the Bible until I was about ten years old, when I got my first one, but I don't think going to church, waiting to have sex when your married, and reading the Bible every night makes you a Christian.
All I have to believe in is God and Jesus to be a Christian, that's just the way I think of these kind of things.

[SaintSaturn]

See, I pratice a lot of the stuff I should, but I also do a lot of the things I shouldn't. I don't go to church every week. I try my best, but I know my ticket is stamped. I believe in Jesus and that's all the Bible says I need to do.

Somehow there's an idea that we need to be perfection. Ever heard the saying Forgiven not Perfected? Something like that anyway. :P


I'm actually really suprised to hear you say that. I agree with you about the perfection thing. I really like these lyrics:

Where does the misunderstanding come from, demanding that we be outsanding and then some? Perfection never was a requirement, although some might say we desired it.

But the second part I have some problems with. What about this?

Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the day approaching.
Hebrews 10:25

And:

For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I with them.
Matthew 18:20

The Bible constantly warns believers to guard their faith, and to gather with other believers (go to church) to praise God and encourage one another. When you say "my ticket is stamped," that scares me a little to be completely honest. The Bible does say that believing in Jesus will get you to Heaven. The Bible also says that faith alone without works is dead. You can have faith, but without nourishing that faith by attending church or reading the Word of God your faith can fail. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but we have become great friends and this is the LAST thing I would ever have expected you to say.

[(sic)]

I don't believe you have to be baptised.
I believe that you need to believe that Jesus died on the cross to your save your sins, that he rose from the grave three days later, preached to his disciples, and then ascended into heaven.
As long as you "admit" that, "believe" in what I wrote about and "confess" it with your mouth, saying that you are a Christian, then I believe you've done the "abc"'s of becoming a Christian.
I believe you have to take those steps.

But, I believe the rest is up to you, entirely.

Don't you mean 2 days later?

[stmx]

Well....I don't believe that. Yes, it has similiarties, but on the big important issues, it's different. Is that your belief? Just wondering.
I look into everything and take bits and pieces with me.

And the "big important issues" are just what society makes them out to be. Remember this.

[j-blue-stars]

Don't you mean 2 days later?
lol its 3 days later..
well in the 3rd day..

[Sexy_Brunette]

i sorta have to disagree.
they always seem surprised that people actually
go to church 3 times a week. its just that on here,
my religion is totally different then everybody else.
they always think were gonna shove Christianity
down their throats! i also do believe you should do
what the bible says about being baptized.


Okay but do you realize how many times the Bible has been re-written? I mean think about it...it started in what Hebrew? and not to mention, (waits for attacks) many "Christian" religions have taken Jehovah God's name out of the Bible which was his holy book to begin with, and have replaced it with God and The Lord. So, based on that alone one could very easily assume that parts of it have been rewritten to better suit certain religions. As far as shoving Christianity down someone's throat...I believe that everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and we are not in the position to change their beliefs. Also, mostly the people who do that are called "bible thumpers" and that is their business. Basically, just do whatever suits you and don't worry about what everyone else does. Not saying you're doing that, but alot of people do, do that. Don't make yourself one of them. If you do, you'll sorely regret it. Enough said there...Wanna know how? go find out. xD

[sing2theLord]

i agree with lauren. i don't think
Christianity is a religion, i believe
that it's a relationship, a faith.
Christianity isn't something with
a ton of rules and regulations, like,
you must wear a long black robe
all year, you can't speak, you
can't cut your hair, etc. there
are only ten major rules [and
a few smaller ones to boot].

1. God should be first in your life.
2. Don't worship other Gods before me.
3. Don't take the Lord's name in vain.
that one is the one that everyone seems to ignore. don't Christians realize--it's a commandment! you should not speak the Lord's name in a way that's not praising Him. so, most of the time, when you precede His name with "oh, my..." you're breaking a Ten Commandment.
4. Rest on the Sabbath [another one we all struggle with]
5. honor your father and mother.
6. thou shalt not murder.
7. do not commit adultery.
8. do not steal.
9. do not lie.
10. don't covet.

with some others sprinkled throughout, including
abstinence [somewhat included in the ten commandments],
marriage is meant for a man and woman, [don't beat
me up for that, it's my personal belief and what the Bible
says].

now, the whole thing with only having to believe in God
and being saved. okay, the Bible says that even the demons
believe in God. are they saved? heck no! just believing in God
is not going to get you to Heaven. you need to have a personal
relationship with Jesus. and your works alone won't get you there.
going to church every sunday, it's awesome. you can really grow in
your faith and fellowship with other believers, and that's aweosme.
but it's not going to get you to heaven. giving money to a homeless
man won't get you to heaven. works alone will NEVER get you to
heaven, no matter how good of a person you are, you're not going
to heaven unless you have a relationship with Jesus.

the whole thing, i do what i want bc i know i'm forgiven. we have to
be as obedient of the Lord as we can, and that means obeying the
ten commandments, doing what we know is right, and avoiding bad
situations.


to close, Jesus rocks!!

wow this might be my longest post in mmw history. [:

[shopaholicoxxo]

After reading all of this I've been thinking about it, and there's one thing about Christianity that REALLY bothers me - the whole concept of heaven vs. hell.

I think it's absurd that the only way you can go to "heaven" is if you have a "personal relationship with Jesus." Frankly, I just think that's ridiculous. So basically, you could be the nicest, most giving, unselfish and caring person in the world, but just because you weren't raised a Christian and it never crossed your mind to be one, you go to "hell"? I thought that God, if he exists, was supposed to forgive our sins? Not that this is even really a sin, I mean, why would someone who wasn't raised Christian ever even think to convert to Christianity? It's not like there's any evidence that Christianity is the "correct" religion, or like God comes down from the sky and tells you to convert.

I feel like the only basis that Christianity has to get people to convert to their religion is, "well if you don't, you'll go to hell." They're just scaring people into being Christians.

:/

[Julia--Miley]

you know what i don't like?
is that you're forced into a religion.
you don't relieze it at the time, becuase your'e just a little kid.
but once you're born, whatever your parents are, you are too,
that's not what religions about, religion is somehting you choose and what you believe in.
and later on in life when you actualy relieze this and you don't believe in that religion, and then you don't believe in religion at all or you change to a new one, you get punished for it and you are now an outkast.
i hate that.

[huskerrich]

Shop, I will attempt your arguement, although I am Catholic, and this is more toward the fundamentalist. I do consider myself to be a Christian. My stand is that as long as you are living a fundamentally good according to your beliefs you will not be condemned to hell. Now what is heaven? According to my beliefs heaven is a state of mind where you are in the constant presence of God. Now think about that for a second, and lets put that statement in a context you might understand. Let's take two people, one individual you know real well and the other person is a stranger to you. You are going to have to spend an entire day with both people, whom are you going to have more fun with? That is why you should have as close a relationship to God, note that I did not say Jesus, as possible.

[shopaholicoxxo]

I used to be Catholic and that's what I always believed as well, that if someone from another faith was a good person then they will not go to hell.

That's true, but someone from another faith will tell you you're wrong and heaven doesn't exist. And what proof do you have to back up that it does? There's no valid reason for someone of another faith to just convert to Christianity since they have been raised that their faith is correct and there's no evidence that says it's not, if that makes sense.

[huskerrich]

That is true to a point in the Catholic faith if that person wasn't given the opportunity of faith and rejected it. Again, put this into something you might understand suppose that you love some guy. In one case, he never finds out, in the other you or someone else tells him, at that point he rejects you. That is one reasons all Catholics are supposed to be missionaries and spread the good news to everyone we meet.

[sing2theLord]

I think it's absurd that the only way you can go to "heaven" is if you have a "personal relationship with Jesus." Frankly, I just think that's ridiculous. So basically, you could be the nicest, most giving, unselfish and caring person in the world, but just because you weren't raised a Christian and it never crossed your mind to be one, you go to "hell"? I thought that God, if he exists, was supposed to forgive our sins? Not that this is even really a sin, I mean, why would someone who wasn't raised Christian ever even think to convert to Christianity? It's not like there's any evidence that Christianity is the "correct" religion, or like God comes down from the sky and tells you to convert.
:/

The underlined part: God will and does forgive our sins. You have to ask Him to, though.
The bolded part: Yes. You have to have Jesus in your life, love Him, have a relationship with Him.
The purple part: You have to have faith.

Also, in that whole post, you're basically insulting me and saying what i just said is totally wrong. that's kind of rude. you're riding me really hard here. this is my belief. you need to respect it. i'm trying to respect yours, while still getting my point across. you can do the same.

[shopaholicoxxo]

Oh I mean I totally get it, I just think that believing anyone who's not Christian will go to hell is unfair because Christian religion has no basis to convert people seeing as there is no proof that it is true. Certainly other religions don't have proof either but if someone was raised to be, say Jewish or Buddhist or something, it's highly unlikely they are going to just abandon the religion they've had their whole life just because some random person tells them it's the "right" one.

[j-blue-stars]

After reading all of this I've been thinking about it, and there's one thing about Christianity that REALLY bothers me - the whole concept of heaven vs. hell.

I think it's absurd that the only way you can go to "heaven" is if you have a "personal relationship with Jesus." Frankly, I just think that's ridiculous. So basically, you could be the nicest, most giving, unselfish and caring person in the world, but just because you weren't raised a Christian and it never crossed your mind to be one, you go to "hell"? I thought that God, if he exists, was supposed to forgive our sins? Not that this is even really a sin, I mean, why would someone who wasn't raised Christian ever even think to convert to Christianity? It's not like there's any evidence that Christianity is the "correct" religion, or like God comes down from the sky and tells you to convert.

I feel like the only basis that Christianity has to get people to convert to their religion is, "well if you don't, you'll go to hell." They're just scaring people into being Christians.

:/:33:
i think u got the wrong idea..
it does bother me that a TON of people who are "christian" think exactly what u just said.. and they scare people by telling them if they dont do this or that they'll go to "hell" theyre the reason not many people want to believe in god or be christian or whatever.. cuz they got scared away by some people who called themselves 'catholic' or 'christian'but are not really good at it.
but then again.. i dont kno the answer to what u said.. because really. i dont kno. i dont think anyone knows...
but like.. uhm..
i mean.. i do believe he will forgive whatever we do.. but like.. we gotta ask for forgiveness to be forgiven dont we?
when u are mean to someone or something u cant expect to be forgiven without asking for it..right?
and i guess the only way ud ask to be forgiven is if u truly believe in god.. right?
the way i understand it is that we have to regret our sins and ask for forgiveness he WILL forgive anything that we might have done..
that has to do with the confession thing.. u kno how people tell the priest their sins and he forgives them... well not really the priest.. i was taught that the priest was like a medium. that its actually god through him..
not saying anyone here has to believe the same tho..
but its what i think.. that u cant expect forgiveness if u dont apologize?
thats it.. im not saying u WONT be forgiven or anything lol cuz i dont kno.
but .. i was just a point i wanted to bring.
but i do understand what ur saying.. how can anyone want to be christian when they never heard of it or were never taught..
i think though.. that supposedly, christians, have a mission which is to teach. all the christians are supposed to "spread the message" but most people dont..
not that we have to like stand in a park and start screaming that god exists and that he loves u lol but .. more like being an example that non-christians would wanna follow.. which will lead them to conversion..
but most people dont do that.. which is very sad.. lol
but yeah i understand where ur coming from

EDIT: i dont think anyone knows whos going to "hell" and who isnt lol... i dont even think christians (or some who call themselves that) can be sure theyre not. or that they are.. cuz noone really knows.. since.. u kno.. people who are alive dont really.. kno :P

[shopaholicoxxo]

The underlined part: God will and does forgive our sins. You have to ask Him to, though.
The bolded part: Yes. You have to have Jesus in your life, love Him, have a relationship with Him.
The un-italicized part: You have to have faith.

Also, in that whole post, you're basically insulting me and saying what i just said is totally wrong. that's kind of rude. you're riding me really hard here. this is my belief. you need to respect it. i'm trying to respect yours, while still getting my point across. you can do the same.Can you give me one reasonable reason why someone who'd been raised with a different religion their entire life would convert to Christianity just because someone tells them it's right, besides the fact that they'll go to "hell" if they don't? I think, that if God exists, he's asking a bit much for everyone to just blindly convert to Christianity when they've believed a different religion for their entire life. There's nothing that shows Christianity as being more likely or real than any other religion. I'm sure people of other religions have just as much "faith" in theirs as you do in yours.

I'm not insulting you at all, and I am definitely respecting your beliefs I am just trying to question and understand them. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just asking you to defend why you think you're right. That is all. There's a difference between trying to make a point and insulting someone.

[shopaholicoxxo]

:33:
i think u got the wrong idea..
it does bother me that a TON of people who are "christian" think exactly what u just said.. and they scare people by telling them if they dont do this or that they'll go to "hell" theyre the reason not many people want to believe in god or be christian or whatever.. cuz they got scared away by some people who called themselves 'catholic' or 'christian'but are not really good at it.
but then again.. i dont kno the answer to what u said.. because really. i dont kno. i dont think anyone knows...
but like.. uhm..
i mean.. i do believe he will forgive whatever we do.. but like.. we gotta ask for forgiveness to be forgiven dont we?
when u are mean to someone or something u cant expect to be forgiven without asking for it..right?
and i guess the only way ud ask to be forgiven is if u truly believe in god.. right?
the way i understand it is that we have to regret our sins and ask for forgiveness he WILL forgive anything that we might have done..
that has to do with the confession thing.. u kno how people tell the priest their sins and he forgives them... well not really the priest.. i was taught that the priest was like a medium. that its actually god through him..
not saying anyone here has to believe the same tho..
but its what i think.. that u cant expect forgiveness if u dont apologize?
thats it.. im not saying u WONT be forgiven or anything lol cuz i dont kno.
but .. i was just a point i wanted to bring.
but i do understand what ur saying.. how can anyone want to be christian when they never heard of it or were never taught..
i think though.. that supposedly, christians, have a mission which is to teach. all the christians are supposed to "spread the message" but most people dont..
not that we have to like stand in a park and start screaming that god exists and that he loves u lol but .. more like being an example that non-christians would wanna follow.. which will lead them to conversion..
but most people dont do that.. which is very sad.. lol
but yeah i understand where ur coming from

EDIT: i dont think anyone knows whos going to "hell" and who isnt lol... i dont even think christians (or some who call themselves that) can be sure theyre not. or that they are.. cuz noone really knows.. since.. u kno.. people who are alive dont really.. kno :PI get what you're saying, definitely. I should have pointed out that it's only the Christians who act like that who bother me sometime.

And you're right about no one really knowing. No one really knows if their religion is right, either, and no one may ever know. I am agnostic, though I am always open to the idea that I am completely wrong. In fact, there's a substantial chance I am, which is why I'm very open-minded to religion and if I ever found one that I truly believed in I would definitely be willing to check it out. The concept of Christianity is appealing, I must admit, but I can't make myself believe it. However, I definitely respect those who do and there are a lot of really good Christians out there who respect my beliefs as well. It's just the ones who tell me I'm going to hell, etc., that bother me, because like you said how could a living person possibly know that? I think some Christians need to accept that even they don't know everything, that certain things they believe might not be correct because there are so many religions out there that most of them are bound to be wrong and I'm sure each religion has aspects of it that are wrong.

I'm not really making sense, but yeah. Basically I think it's fine to believe something, but I don't think anyone should act like it's fact.

[sing2theLord]

although you may not believe that it's fact that Christians go to Heaven and non-Christians elsewhere, i do. i believe that the Bible is fact, and that is what the Bible says.

reasons why someone would want to convert?


well, i've been a Christian my entire life. it's how i was raised, and i'm super thankful for that. so, i haven't exactly converted. but i know that, if i wasn't a Christian, i would be such a different person. my life would be empty. for me, there's no purpose to living except that i need to bring people to Christ so they can live in Heaven with God for eternity. i want Heaven, and i don't wish Hell on anyone. i don't wish it on the worst person in the world. i want everyone to go to Heaven. life is empty unless you have a purpose, and Christianity is my purpose.

God provides for those who trust Him. my family doesn't have a lot of money right now, but we're trusting Him to provide for us. God will always take care of His children, because we ARE His children. we are His people, the Sheep of His Pasture.

another reason to convert, the one you have been saying. I don't want to end up in Hell. who would? i want to live in Heaven, Paradise, for eternity. once you end up in Hell, there's no turning back. you can't change and say, I'm a Christian now! I want Heaven! you can't. the Bible says that you can't even get a drop of water in Hell. i don't want to go there, and like i said earlier, i don't wish it on anyone.




if you're interested, i've read some really good books on Heaven and Hell. they're true stories, and i believe them. i highly recommend that you check them out. they're called


90 Minutes in Heaven by Don Piper with Cecil Murphy.
It's a New York Times Best-Seller.

23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese.

they're really good books, i hope you read them.

[NancyDrew]

hm..
i kinda disagree with you on one part..
u said "my ticket is stamped" im guessing as in..u can do whatever and nothing will happen? :33: i guess.. thats partly true cuz god or jesus will forgive us because its why god sent his son to die for us.. cuz..of the sins and stuff but anyways... uhm.. its true that we are allowed to make mistakes and stuff.. but i think (well the way i understand my religion being a catholic and therefore a christian) is that god/jesus wants all of us to TRY to be the best persons we can be.. he doesnt ask for perfection.. be he wants us to TRY to be as he was.. like.. i kno i make a lot of mistakes and stuff.. but i dont think oh wel whatever im still going to heaven anyways.. im not saying that u shouldnt think that cuz i cant change ur mind lol but thats what im saying.. im not saying im right and ur wrong tho lol.. im just putting my POV in that part u said. i think all he wants is that we try to be the best person we can be.. and if we make mistakes we should ..like.. learn from them? and like understand that we've made a mistake.
(trying to be as respectful as possible)
but yeah. that doesnt mean that we CANNOT drink or do other stuff people do... i mean.. drinking isnt bad.. just as long as its not excess(sp)
then again. i dont mean to disrespect anyone's beliefs lol i was just stating my opinion on that.



You misunderstood me. Of course you can't just do whatever. IMO that kinda sounds as if you're not a Christian. (I'm not talking about you btw :P) If you are, you want to do the right things. You constently fail, but you try and that's all God asks us to do. And I believe that you can actually tell God you don't want to be a Christian anymore but that's on the extreme end. And yes, I am not Catholic. That does influence me alot. While I think we agree on most things, there are some stuff I do not.

I look into everything and take bits and pieces with me.

And the "big important issues" are just what society makes them out to be. Remember this.

Um, no. The big important issues are salvational issues. Those aren't made by society. Sure they say don't murder, don't steal, etc, etc. Most religions do, but they all differ somehow with their salvation issue. They are the most important issues. Apparently you disagree, but I cannot see that.

I'm actually really suprised to hear you say that.

Why are you suprised? I am still human after all, a very fallen human. Each day, I try to follow God the best of my abilities but I fail miserably. It bothers me when people expect Christians to be perfect. We're still human. We still do those bad things. We still screw up. We're not perfect. That doesn't happen till after we die, and then, people aren't judging you there.

[shopaholicoxxo]

although you may not believe that it's fact that Christians go to Heaven and non-Christians elsewhere, i do. i believe that the Bible is fact, and that is what the Bible says.

reasons why someone would want to convert?


well, i've been a Christian my entire life. it's how i was raised, and i'm super thankful for that. so, i haven't exactly converted. but i know that, if i wasn't a Christian, i would be such a different person. my life would be empty. for me, there's no purpose to living except that i need to bring people to Christ so they can live in Heaven with God for eternity. i want Heaven, and i don't wish Hell on anyone. i don't wish it on the worst person in the world. i want everyone to go to Heaven. life is empty unless you have a purpose, and Christianity is my purpose.

God provides for those who trust Him. my family doesn't have a lot of money right now, but we're trusting Him to provide for us. God will always take care of His children, because we ARE His children. we are His people, the Sheep of His Pasture.

another reason to convert, the one you have been saying. I don't want to end up in Hell. who would? i want to live in Heaven, Paradise, for eternity. once you end up in Hell, there's no turning back. you can't change and say, I'm a Christian now! I want Heaven! you can't. the Bible says that you can't even get a drop of water in Hell. i don't want to go there, and like i said earlier, i don't wish it on anyone.




if you're interested, i've read some really good books on Heaven and Hell. they're true stories, and i believe them. i highly recommend that you check them out. they're called


90 Minutes in Heaven by Don Piper with Cecil Murphy.
It's a New York Times Best-Seller.

23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese.

they're really good books, i hope you read them.You believe the Bible is fact. That doesn't mean it is. That fine that you believe that, since I believe it's not, but are you even open to the notion that it's POSSIBLE you're wrong? I'm certainly aware that I could be wrong and everything in the Bible could be true, I just don't believe I am. Which should be the same case for you, just opposite. You don't know for a fact that the Bible is true. It's called a belief or a faith for a reason.

To be honest, I know this is brought up a lot, but seriously - if God cares so much about us, then why do so many horrible things happen to everyone? You said God provides for those who trust him, but there are plenty of starving, dying children in Africa right now who trust him but aren't getting anything but death.

And there are tons of other religions that tell me I'll go to some kind of "hell" if I don't convert to theirs, too. How do I know which one is correct? It's like you have a one in 234208423 chance of choosing the right religion and if you don't, you go to into some kind of eternal misery. It's not like any of the religions have proof that theirs is right, which is why I don't get why God, if he exists, is so unmerciful to good people who simply didn't choose Christianity because they didn't know any better.

I am interested actually, religion has always interested me since it's a very... weird subject for me. I'll look into them. (; Thanks.

[LukkiStar]

Religion is kind of a...touchy subject. Putting it mildly.
I've grown up not really having a religion. I've gone to Catholic school for most of my life, so I have a pretty good grasp on what their beliefs are. I think Christianity is actually not a bad religion, many Christians that I know are perfectly normal people that are nice, and Christians generally have a good idea of being nice to other people and non-violence and stuff like that. However, there are those extreme people that make it really difficult for me to take Christianity seriously.
I've had MANY people in my life tell me that I'm going to hell because I don't believe in God. They said that because I've been educated about God, but choose not to believe, and choose not to ask for forgiveness for my sins, that I'm going to go to hell.
And so I asked that if someone hasn't been educated about God, will they still go to hell, and they said no. So apparently because I had the opportunity to make a choice, and didn't make the right one, I'm going to go to hell. This REALLY bothers me.
My English teacher at school is VERY religious and puts a religious spin on everything that we read. And he hates me and gives me lower grades because I'm not religious and don't believe in God. People sometimes make everything about religion, and mix it into things that it really doesn't belong in.

I think that religion really can be a good thing. I know people that say that God has helped them through some really tough times in their life, which I think is great. To me, religion is something to explain the unexplained, and something to give you hope. Being able to find hope in something that there's really no hard evidence of is great, in a way I admire the people that can do that. Some people think that scientific evidence (i.e. evolution) is wrong, because they already have an idea in their mind about how God did something. And when people are so close minded about that, that kinda bugs me.

I just don't know. I know quite a few people at my school that frequently try to convert me to Christianity, and then they tell me that I'm a horrible person because I won't. I have teachers that hate me because I'm not religious. My Grandma even tries to convert me, and gets upset when I refuse.
I think that some Christians can be very pushy, and that they need to accept that some people just don't believe in what they believe in.
All of them tell me that I'm going to hell.

I don't think Christianity is bad, but there are some people that really do not do it justice, and I think some of the ideas based around it (heaven and hell mainly) are bad.
They say by definition that hell is eternal separation from God...so am I already there then?

[NancyDrew]

There is something that is impossible to explain to people who are not Christians. There is a feeling in my gut where I know that I know that I know that I am right. That Christianity is true. That what I have built my entire life around is the truth. I'm sure she feels the same way.

Okay, ^ give me a second. We posted at the same time. Some people have given you wrong info. This may take a few minutes though.

[shopaholicoxxo]

There is something that is impossible to explain to people who are not Christians. There is a feeling in my gut where I know that I know that I know that I am right. That Christianity is true. That what I have built my entire life around is the truth. I'm sure she feels the same way.
And that's perfectly fine because we all know that feeling whether it be for religion or for something else. But there are people in 230492834 different religions out there who say the EXACT same thing as you, and it is of course only logical that most of them will be wrong seeing as only one can be right. It is fine that you believe that you are right and I'm glad that it's made your life better for you and I respect that a LOT, but I think everyone has to have it in the back of their mind that there is a possibility, no matter how sure they are that they're correct, that they are wrong.

[LukkiStar]

I just wanted to add that I'm absolutely open to the idea that there really IS a God, but I find it so hard to believe with all the suffering in the world (I know, the answer is that we really don't KNOW why there's so much suffering in the world, but that's kind of a non-answer to me) and if someone can present hard evidence to me, then I'll definitely consider it. It's fine that you believe in God even if you don't really have any proof, but I can't bring myself to do that.

[sing2theLord]

You believe the Bible is fact. That doesn't mean it is. That fine that you believe that, since I believe it's not, but are you even open to the notion that it's POSSIBLE you're wrong? I'm certainly aware that I could be wrong and everything in the Bible could be true, I just don't believe I am. Which should be the same case for you, just opposite. You don't know for a fact that the Bible is true. It's called a belief or a faith for a reason.

To be honest, I know this is brought up a lot, but seriously - if God cares so much about us, then why do so many horrible things happen to everyone? You said God provides for those who trust him, but there are plenty of starving, dying children in Africa right now who trust him but aren't getting anything but death.

And there are tons of other religions that tell me I'll go to some kind of "hell" if I don't convert to theirs, too. How do I know which one is correct? It's like you have a one in 234208423 chance of choosing the right religion and if you don't, you go to into some kind of eternal misery. It's not like any of the religions have proof that theirs is right, which is why I don't get why God, if he exists, is so unmerciful to good people who simply didn't choose Christianity because they didn't know any better.

I am interested actually, religion has always interested me since it's a very... weird subject for me. I'll look into them. (; Thanks.

the reason why there's so much corruption and horrible things happening in the world is that Satan is in and of the world. Satan is working against God, but God and so many of His children are working against Satan. God's in the world, but definitely not of it. We're working for good and trying to help others. That explains organizations and charities.

God doesn't want Hell for anyone. God wants you to run into His arms so He can save you and keep you from Hell ["let the little children come to Me," says Jesus.]. But you can't be saved unless you trust God. it's like this, say you've been standing up for a long time, so you're really tired. you see a comfy-looking chair, so you walk over and sit in it. you have faith that it's going to hold you up, otherwise you wouldn't have sat in it. if you didn't have faith and hadn't sat in it, you would have been so tired that you would've collapsed onto the ground.

the chair is God. you just have to trust him,
and He'll save you from Hell [falling].


i hope you read them. [:

[Running_Girl]

I feel like religion is someone's own personal decision. It's your fate. It's what you believe and people shouldn't try to change it. If someone changes on their own, cool.
I don't really feel that religion can really be argued... we have no proof if it's real or if it's not. It's someone's own opinion.

I personally am having a really difficult time decided what I believe in now.
I was raised and baptized a christian but now I really don't know what I believe. I've been having a really difficult time lately, a lot of bad things have been happening, and I just... don't understand why God would do something like that. Religion is a really hard thing because my family is pretty religious and once my mother said one thing she wanted her children to learn from her as a parent was to be religious. It's really difficult for me because I feel as though I'm some sort of failure to her. I just feel like religion is someone's own personal matter... I really don't know... :/
Sorry for the long rant.

[NancyDrew]

Okay, people who have never heard of Jesus Christ can still go to hell. Because, in the Bible, God tells us that by looking around we can tell there is a God. If you live in a small tribe hidden within the jungle but realize that there had to be a God to do this but that's all you know, you're going to Heaven.
I will use Plato for example. Born before Christ so he obvisously never heard of him, but I believe I will see him in Heaven one day. Why? Because he basically came to a conclusion that the actual religion had to be like this. Christianity mirrors that. Now, other people don't have to do that much, but that's a very good example.

But I will never feel there evidence of evolution. Name what you want, but I see there is absolutely no evidence to support evolution. On the contary, I think there is evidence to support Christianity. We've already debated this once, but I'd thought I'd say it again.

No, you're not a bad person. There are some very good people who are going to hell. But you must understand. Those people care for you. That's why they are trying so hard. Is that the best way? No, but they care about you.

Um, no. Yes, that's the defination of hell, but God is still here, right now, present in the world. You do not want to experience the horror of actually being separated from Him. If you think the world's bad, wait till He's actually gone.

[dontwalkaway]

I mean, why would someone who wasn't raised Christian ever even think to convert to Christianity? It's not like there's any evidence that Christianity is the "correct" religion, or like God comes down from the sky and tells you to convert.
actually, it does happen sometimes. my entire family is atheist and pretty much none of my friends are religious at all and yet i'm a christian. so i'm just putting it out there that it can happen sometimes.

[sing2theLord]

^^to go along with you,


"I don't understand how one can look up into the sky and say that there is no God."

--Abraham Lincoln

[huskerrich]

Okay, first of all, this is not my understanding of what hell is, it is just a what if argument. Suppose that my understanding of heaven is the correct one, and as a matter of fact since my God is a just God that good people of all faiths go to same place. Since the heaven I described is a relationship with a person, how comfortable would be with my God whom he doesn't know. Maybe hell for the man in question is that state.

[NancyDrew]

And that's perfectly fine because we all know that feeling whether it be for religion or for something else. But there are people in 230492834 different religions out there who say the EXACT same thing as you, and it is of course only logical that most of them will be wrong seeing as only one can be right. It is fine that you believe that you are right and I'm glad that it's made your life better for you and I respect that a LOT, but I think everyone has to have it in the back of their mind that there is a possibility, no matter how sure they are that they're correct, that they are wrong.

I understand. When I was younger, I used to wonder. It'd be this little doubt that would spring up, but I don't have that anymore. I've studied all different religions, etc, etc. I KNOW that Jesus Christ is son of God who came and died for us. And if we believe in Him, we shall be saved. I wish I could convey my feelings for this. It's not just blind faith. To me, there is more evidence to support God than you will ever see.

^BTW, I am afraid I don't understand what you're trying to say. ???

[shopaholicoxxo]

the reason why there's so much corruption and horrible things happening in the world is that Satan is in and of the world. Satan is working against God, but God and so many of His children are working against Satan. God's in the world, but definitely not of it. We're working for good and trying to help others. That explains organizations and charities.

God doesn't want Hell for anyone. God wants you to run into His arms so He can save you and keep you from Hell ["let the little children come to Me," says Jesus.]. But you can't be saved unless you trust God. it's like this, say you've been standing up for a long time, so you're really tired. you see a comfy-looking chair, so you walk over and sit in it. you have faith that it's going to hold you up, otherwise you wouldn't have sat in it. if you didn't have faith and hadn't sat in it, you would have been so tired that you would've collapsed onto the ground.

the chair is God. you just have to trust him,
and He'll save you from Hell [falling].


i hope you read them. [:
But my point is, what if there are 15 comfy chairs that all look exactly the same, all right next to each other? So you randomly pick one and sit and it, and it's comfortable so you stay there. How could you possibly know that (in your opinion) Christianity is better than the religion you've just chosen? If someone likes the religion they have either been rasied with or chosen they are not going to change it just because someone else tells them it's better.


Um, no. Yes, that's the defination of hell, but God is still here, right now, present in the world. You do not want to experience the horror of actually being separated from Him. If you think the world's bad, wait till He's actually gone.

But anyone who doesn't believe in God now, doesn't believe they are going to hell anyways. So this argument is irrelevant for someone who doesn't believe in God.

actually, it does happen sometimes. my entire family is atheist and pretty much none of my friends are religious at all and yet i'm a christian. so i'm just putting it out there that it can happen sometimes.Oh yeah, I didn't mean it could NEVER happen, I just mean more specifically if a child was raised to be Jewish or Hindu or something, it's more likely they'll stay with that religion because they believe it is right as they were raised that way and there's no solid proof anywhere telling them that Christianity is right and theirs is wrong. Like how are you supposed to know?

I understand. When I was younger, I used to wonder. It'd be this little doubt that would spring up, but I don't have that anymore. I've studied all different religions, etc, etc. I KNOW that Jesus Christ is son of God who came and died for us. And if we believe in Him, we shall be saved. I wish I could convey my feelings for this. It's not just blind faith. To me, there is more evidence to support God than you will ever see.

^BTW, I am afraid I don't understand what you're trying to say. ???And I'm glad you feel that way. (: And I'm not being sarcastic. I have a lot of respect for religious people, honestly, because if it helps them live a better life that's fantastic. Religion just isn't for everyone, and I don't think it's for me. As long as religious people respect that, I have no problem with them. (:

[j-blue-stars]

I get what you're saying, definitely. I should have pointed out that it's only the Christians who act like that who bother me sometime.

And you're right about no one really knowing. No one really knows if their religion is right, either, and no one may ever know. I am agnostic, though I am always open to the idea that I am completely wrong. In fact, there's a substantial chance I am, which is why I'm very open-minded to religion and if I ever found one that I truly believed in I would definitely be willing to check it out. The concept of Christianity is appealing, I must admit, but I can't make myself believe it. However, I definitely respect those who do and there are a lot of really good Christians out there who respect my beliefs as well. It's just the ones who tell me I'm going to hell, etc., that bother me, because like you said how could a living person possibly know that? I think some Christians need to accept that even they don't know everything, that certain things they believe might not be correct because there are so many religions out there that most of them are bound to be wrong and I'm sure each religion has aspects of it that are wrong.

I'm not really making sense, but yeah. Basically I think it's fine to believe something, but I don't think anyone should act like it's fact.
yeah.. i kno i believe something but i cannot be 100 sure that its all true..
but i chose to believe it is.. but not because of that.. it means that its true. cuz theres a chance that its wrong..
i just happen to choose to believe its true
but i cant tell someone that it is in fact true.. cuz.. noone really knows
You misunderstood me. Of course you can't just do whatever. IMO that kinda sounds as if you're not a Christian. (I'm not talking about you btw :P) If you are, you want to do the right things. You constently fail, but you try and that's all God asks us to do. And I believe that you can actually tell God you don't want to be a Christian anymore but that's on the extreme end. And yes, I am not Catholic. That does influence me alot. While I think we agree on most things, there are some stuff I do not.


oh ok :P im sorry
Religion is kind of a...touchy subject. Putting it mildly.
I've grown up not really having a religion. I've gone to Catholic school for most of my life, so I have a pretty good grasp on what their beliefs are. I think Christianity is actually not a bad religion, many Christians that I know are perfectly normal people that are nice, and Christians generally have a good idea of being nice to other people and non-violence and stuff like that. However, there are those extreme people that make it really difficult for me to take Christianity seriously.
I've had MANY people in my life tell me that I'm going to hell because I don't believe in God. They said that because I've been educated about God, but choose not to believe, and choose not to ask for forgiveness for my sins, that I'm going to go to hell.
And so I asked that if someone hasn't been educated about God, will they still go to hell, and they said no. So apparently because I had the opportunity to make a choice, and didn't make the right one, I'm going to go to hell. This REALLY bothers me.
My English teacher at school is VERY religious and puts a religious spin on everything that we read. And he hates me and gives me lower grades because I'm not religious and don't believe in God. People sometimes make everything about religion, and mix it into things that it really doesn't belong in.

I think that religion really can be a good thing. I know people that say that God has helped them through some really tough times in their life, which I think is great. To me, religion is something to explain the unexplained, and something to give you hope. Being able to find hope in something that there's really no hard evidence of is great, in a way I admire the people that can do that. Some people think that scientific evidence (i.e. evolution) is wrong, because they already have an idea in their mind about how God did something. And when people are so close minded about that, that kinda bugs me.

I just don't know. I know quite a few people at my school that frequently try to convert me to Christianity, and then they tell me that I'm a horrible person because I won't. I have teachers that hate me because I'm not religious. My Grandma even tries to convert me, and gets upset when I refuse.
I think that some Christians can be very pushy, and that they need to accept that some people just don't believe in what they believe in.
All of them tell me that I'm going to hell.

I don't think Christianity is bad, but there are some people that really do not do it justice, and I think some of the ideas based around it (heaven and hell mainly) are bad.
They say by definition that hell is eternal separation from God...so am I already there then?
i understand ur problem with that :P
but then again.. the difference is that.. PEOPLE are like that.. u kno? even non-christians or whatever can be pushy and stuff.. so i guess its human nature that bothers u sometimes :P which i understand cuz i also hate when people try to make me think something i dont..
but.. that doesnt mean christianity makes people force it into others and threaten them saying theyre going to hell if they dont become christians.. but i guess.. some people have the wrong concept which leads them to do what they do to u.. some people just have it all wrong..
I just wanted to add that I'm absolutely open to the idea that there really IS a God, but I find it so hard to believe with all the suffering in the world (I know, the answer is that we really don't KNOW why there's so much suffering in the world, but that's kind of a non-answer to me) and if someone can present hard evidence to me, then I'll definitely consider it. It's fine that you believe in God even if you don't really have any proof, but I can't bring myself to do that.
i think i have an answer for that.. :P
i HAVE wondered that myself.. u kno.. WHY if there is a god who loves us and wants only the best for us.. why is there violence.. and injustice and stuff.. i got an answer from someone who i truly believe KNOWS what being a christian is.. and that answered pretty much my question..
so anyways.
what he said was that god wanted the best for us, yes, but he also gave us our free will where we can choose whether to believe in him.. and where we can choose what to do and what not to do. which is why bad things happen.. because he cant force ANYONE to do good.. he would like everyone to be good.. but he wont make us do anything.. so if they choose to kill or something like that its not that he wants to let it happen.. but he just cant force anyone. thats not the kind of god that id wanna have cuz it would be like.. a dictator or something lol
but he gave us our free will.. and therefore there is violence because humans make wrong choices..
thats also the reason there are so many different religions.. cuz some catholics CHOSE not to believe and created their own religions.. like martin luther i think it is? he was the first to separate himself from chatholisism and that led to others straying from catholisism and so on..
so the answer to ur question pretty much is free will
im not saying u have to believe what i just said tho.. i was just trying to give u an answer to ur question cuz ive wondered that myself

[Amandinha]

Definitely.

I'm not getting into it but theres some pretty absurd and wrong interpretations of it out there.
And from christian people you'd think they would know the basics of it.

[huskerrich]

Okay Nancy, one of the descriptions of heaven that I have heard, is heaven is a state of being, where you are in the constant presence of God who is love. Our journey on earth is to have as close a relationship to God as possible. Now, the God I believe in is also a just God, and he will not send someone to hell who doesn't deserve it. But when that just unbeliever, is allowed into heaven, he finds a God that does not know. Heaven for that individual, could actually be his own personal hell.

[NancyDrew]

Oh, okay. I see what you're trying to say. Allright.

[LukkiStar]

i think i have an answer for that.. :P
i HAVE wondered that myself.. u kno.. WHY if there is a god who loves us and wants only the best for us.. why is there violence.. and injustice and stuff.. i got an answer from someone who i truly believe KNOWS what being a christian is.. and that answered pretty much my question..
so anyways.
what he said was that god wanted the best for us, yes, but he also gave us our free will where we can choose whether to believe in him.. and where we can choose what to do and what not to do. which is why bad things happen.. because he cant force ANYONE to do good.. he would like everyone to be good.. but he wont make us do anything.. so if they choose to kill or something like that its not that he wants to let it happen.. but he just cant force anyone. thats not the kind of god that id wanna have cuz it would be like.. a dictator or something lol
but he gave us our free will.. and therefore there is violence because humans make wrong choices..
thats also the reason there are so many different religions.. cuz some catholics CHOSE not to believe and created their own religions.. like martin luther i think it is? he was the first to separate himself from chatholisism and that led to others straying from catholisism and so on..
so the answer to ur question pretty much is free will
im not saying u have to believe what i just said tho.. i was just trying to give u an answer to ur question cuz ive wondered that myself
Hmm, that's actually a really interesting theory.
I'm not sure if I quite believe it, but it's one of the better ones that I've heard. I can actually see how that might make sense. Although I'd still say that I don't really believe in God, that's actually not a bad explanation for suffering and stuff.

[crazy_in_a_good_way]

To comment on the hypothetical "Islam, Jew, etc" who
probably won't want to become saved because of the
way they've been raised. This is where God steps in... he
softens their hearts and gives them plenty of chances. You
mentioned the people in Africa who trust God but all they get
is death... Hello? If they're truly Christians I'm sure they'd rather
be in heaven with God than on this crummy Earth (at least, with
all the hardships they're facing). I'm not suicidal or anything but
I'm ready to die any day -- I guess you could say, I'm looking forward
to death....but not in a gruesome way?

And, yes. I do think that people have the entire wrong idea about
Christianity and most of the time it's our (the Christians') fault.
Sometimes we are hypocritical and it appears as if Christianity relies
on works. Here's an example:

My friend (let's say her name is Kate) was talking to my other friend
(let's say he's Jake). Jake accused Kate of calling
someone of another race an inappropriate name... So, Kate, supposing
Jake's a Christian (raised in a Christian home, goes to local Baptist Church, etc)
says to him, "That's not very Christian" in a sarcastic tone. Jake replies, "I'm not..."
So, Kate comes to tell me what just happened and that Jake isn't a Christian.
At the end of class, Kate almost dropped her book and says, "Oh my God!"
I, using somewhat of reverse pyscology (sp?), say "That's isn't very Christian of you."
She gives me a horrible glare and goes, "That was mean."

Hypocrasy is something Christians every where need to work on.
Including me.

[sing2theLord]

^i love ths post right here.

thank you embee.

[NancyDrew]

I agree. But we're still just human. I guess we're always going to be judged by that though. :thumbsup:

[j-blue-stars]

Hmm, that's actually a really interesting theory.
I'm not sure if I quite believe it, but it's one of the better ones that I've heard. I can actually see how that might make sense. Although I'd still say that I don't really believe in God, that's actually not a bad explanation for suffering and stuff.
yeah :P i wont try to make u believe in god.. but im glad u see the point :P

[shopaholicoxxo]

To comment on the hypothetical "Islam, Jew, etc" who
probably won't want to become saved because of the
way they've been raised. This is where God steps in... he
softens their hearts and gives them plenty of chances. You
mentioned the people in Africa who trust God but all they get
is death... Hello? If they're truly Christians I'm sure they'd rather
be in heaven with God than on this crummy Earth (at least, with
all the hardships they're facing). I'm not suicidal or anything but
I'm ready to die any day -- I guess you could say, I'm looking forward
to death....but not in a gruesome way? Explain to me how he "softens their hearts and gives them many chances?" I'm not exactly grasping that. It's not like God comes down from the sky and tells you to convert to Christianity...

Why does God force them to suffer at all? And it's stupid to assume they'd want to die and leave all of their family and friends behind just because they're having a rough time on Earth. Why would God want to take the lives of young children, not even giving them a chance to live a full life?

Honestly, if God exists then why he create an Earth like this? Why do tornados, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters happen and kill thousands of innocent people?

[j-blue-stars]

i believe he offered paradise to human kind but we didnt take it.. so thats what we get for making the choice we made..we meaning man kind..

[shopaholicoxxo]

i believe he offered paradise to human kind but we didnt take it.. so thats what we get for making the choice we made..we meaning man kind..Do you mean the whole Adam and Eve story, where they were told not to eat from that certain tree but did anyways?

Cause if so that's pretty dumb; innocent people being punished thousands of years later because of a mistake two people made. I find a lot of things this so-called "loving" God does to be quite unfair and unmerciful, to be honest. No offense to anyone.

[SaintSaturn]

Why does God force them to suffer at all? And it's stupid to assume they'd want to die and leave all of their family and friends behind just because they're having a rough time on Earth. Why would God want to take the lives of young children, not even giving them a chance to live a full life?

Honestly, if God exists then why he create an Earth like this? Why do tornados, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters happen and kill thousands of innocent people?



Let me ask you a question. I don't know if you are very familiar with the Bible, but does God EVER promise us a fruitful life on the Earth? Does he promise us a high paying job that will get us a big house and plenty of nice possessions? I think many people only look at one possible side of the question. If you are going to ask why there is so much suffering and death in the world, you should also be asking why not. Are you familiar with the book of Job? Basically, God allowed Satan to take EVERYTHING away from a faithful man named Job. His children died, he lost everything he had, and sores formed all over his body. Children in the town made fun of him, and nobody respected him. His wife told him to curse God, and turn away from his faith. Do you know what he said? He told her that she was a foolish woman, and that she only had in mind the things of men and not of God. I always wondered why the poorest, starving children in Africa always have smiles on their faces and have more joy in their hearts than any child in America. Maybe it is because they have in mind the things of God and not of man or the world.

[smartchick]

I think most people have the wrong idea.
And alot of people at school are afraid to say what their religion it. :S
I do believe you should be baptized eventually to call yourself a Christian though.
Some people actually think that Christmas is just about the gifts and all.
And they don't really know ehat they're celebrating.
I completely agree with you when you said that you don't have to go to church every Sunday,
or read the biblt everyone night. I miss church alot for sports and things.
I know where I should be on Sunday, and I feel guily sometimes, :P but your right.
This is just my opinion though.

[j-blue-stars]

Do you mean the whole Adam and Eve story, where they were told not to eat from that certain tree but did anyways?

Cause if so that's pretty dumb; innocent people being punished thousands of years later because of a mistake two people made. I find a lot of things this so-called "loving" God does to be quite unfair and unmerciful, to be honest. No offense to anyone.
im sorry my beliefs seem dumb to you.
but do u expect everything to be perfect before u believe in god?
thats not very smart... i dont think any person who truly believes in god expects life to be even close to perfect.. life is a pain most times.. but that doesnt mean god wanted us to suffer and hurt all the time.
I believe that HE can give anyone the strenght to live through whatever it is we have to live through.
he never said everything was gonna be alright while we were on earth.
cuz the earth is full of people making wrong choices

[smartchick]

Do you mean the whole Adam and Eve story, where they were told not to eat from that certain tree but did anyways?

Cause if so that's pretty dumb; innocent people being punished thousands of years later because of a mistake two people made. I find a lot of things this so-called "loving" God does to be quite unfair and unmerciful, to be honest. No offense to anyone.

Well, Adam and Eve were the first people.
So they set the fate for all of us.
I personally think it makes perfectly good sense.
They were basically our parents so I wouldn't really say its dumb. :S
Why would you call it unmerciful?

[shopaholicoxxo]

Let me ask you a question. I don't know if you are very familiar with the Bible, but does God EVER promise us a fruitful life on the Earth? Does he promise us a high paying job that will get us a big house and plenty of nice possessions? I think many people only look at one possible side of the question. If you are going to ask why there is so much suffering and death in the world, you should also be asking why not. Are you familiar with the book of Job? Basically, God allowed Satan to take EVERYTHING away from a faithful man named Job. His children died, he lost everything he had, and sores formed all over his body. Children in the town made fun of him, and nobody respected him. His wife told him to curse God, and turn away from his faith. Do you know what he said? He told her that she was a foolish woman, and that she only had in mind the things of men and not of God. I always wondered why the poorest, starving children in Africa always have smiles on their faces and have more joy in their hearts than any child in America. Maybe it is because they have in mind the things of God and not of man or the world.

I am somewhat familiar with the Bible, seeing as I used to be Catholic, though admittedly not as familiar as I should have been.

I understand what you are saying, but I'm not sure why God would allow us, would want us, to suffer. He is the one who created us (in your opinion), correct? So why does he create us only to make us suffer? Of course not all people do and some people have wonderful lives, but there are many people who have it off so bad. Obviously, God has the power to make our lives good, so why does he not exercise it? I'm not saying he should give everyone $120318922302938 and everything they'd ever want. That's unrealistic and I know that, and I know that going through certain hard things in your life does make you stronger and can even be a good thing. But why does he allow some people to suffer so much, so much to the point where they actually want to die regardless of whether they believe in heaven because they are so fed up with their own life? Why do so many innocent people die young, leaving their families and friends in complete disarray?

Frankly, I'd find it much easier to believe in God if he actually seemed to care about us. People always say he does help us, but I don't see anything changing for the better.

[smartchick]

im sorry my beliefs seem dumb to you.
but do u expect everything to be perfect before u believe in god?
thats not very smart... i dont think any person who truly believes in god expects life to be even close to perfect.. life is a pain most times.. but that doesnt mean god wanted us to suffer and hurt all the time.
I believe that HE can give anyone the strenght to live through whatever it is we have to live through.
he never said everything was gonna be alright while we were on earth.
cuz the earth is full of people making wrong choices

I think your beliefs make perfectly good sense since they're exactly what
I believe too anyway. :P In no way do I expect me life to be perfect.
What I know is that the challenges that God gives us, he knows we can handle them.
It's like a test for the next part in our life. Its prepearing us for what we're going to need later. He knows we can do it, or he wouldn't have given us the task in the first place. And when it's finally time for us to pass away, we'll know that everything will be alright.

[sing2theLord]

Do you mean the whole Adam and Eve story, where they were told not to eat from that certain tree but did anyways?

Cause if so that's pretty dumb; innocent people being punished thousands of years later because of a mistake two people made. I find a lot of things this so-called "loving" God does to be quite unfair and unmerciful, to be honest. No offense to anyone.

i said this earlier. it's because satan is in and of the world. satan told eve to eat from the tree of good and evil, so she did. people let satan influence them, when we need to be strong in the Lord. we need to listen to Him only, and turn to Him with our problems. God is totally fair and full of mercy. if He was unfair and unmerciful, then we wouldn't have the chance to be forgiven. we can have our slate wiped clean. we may still have guilt for the bad things we've done, but God has forgiven us. God sent His Son for us. God only ever had one Son, and that was Jesus. God sent Jesus, His one, His only Son, to Earth to die for us. Jesus was hung on a cross. He bled. He cried. He felt pain. He sweat blood. His pain wasn't spared just because He is God's Son. He went through everything that everyone else went through. Jesus took all the sins of everyone of all time upon Himself that day. Jesus NEVER sinned. He's the only person in the history of all mankind that sinned. Through Jesus' perfect blood, we can be saved. He took all our sins: mine, yours, anyone's. You can be forgiven through Jesus and enter Heaven when you die. Do you still think God is unfair and unmerciful? I don't.

[shopaholicoxxo]

im sorry my beliefs seem dumb to you.
but do u expect everything to be perfect before u believe in god?
thats not very smart... i dont think any person who truly believes in god expects life to be even close to perfect.. life is a pain most times.. but that doesnt mean god wanted us to suffer and hurt all the time.
I believe that HE can give anyone the strenght to live through whatever it is we have to live through.
he never said everything was gonna be alright while we were on earth.
cuz the earth is full of people making wrong choicesYour beliefs aren't dumb, I'm sorry if I sounded harsh there I'm just frustrated because I really would love to believe in God but I'm just too skeptical.

But my point is, if there is a God, why shouldn't life be as perfect as he can possibly make it? What can possibly benefit from just letting miserable things happen, things that he could control according to the power he supposedly has?

Well, Adam and Eve were the first people.
So they set the fate for all of us.
I personally think it makes perfectly good sense.
They were basically our parents so I wouldn't really say its dumb. :S
Why would you call it unmerciful?I just have trouble grasping the fact that two people who made a stupid decision thousands of years ago decided the entirety of fate for mankind. It's not like if your great great great grandmother did something stupid, people would hold it against you today...


I'm pretty much done here because apparently I'm offending people which I'm reallyyyy trying not to, I'm just trying to understand why you believe in God and such, but apparently you guys are offended easily.

[smartchick]

I am somewhat familiar with the Bible, seeing as I used to be Catholic, though admittedly not as familiar as I should have been.

I understand what you are saying, but I'm not sure why God would allow us, would want us, to suffer. He is the one who created us (in your opinion), correct? So why does he create us only to make us suffer? Of course not all people do and some people have wonderful lives, but there are many people who have it off so bad. Obviously, God has the power to make our lives good, so why does he not exercise it? I'm not saying he should give everyone $120318922302938 and everything they'd ever want. That's unrealistic and I know that, and I know that going through certain hard things in your life does make you stronger and can even be a good thing. But why does he allow some people to suffer so much, so much to the point where they actually want to die regardless of whether they believe in heaven because they are so fed up with their own life? Why do so many innocent people die young, leaving their families and friends in complete disarray?

Frankly, I'd find it much easier to believe in God if he actually seemed to care about us. People always say he does help us, but I don't see anything changing for the better.

He didn't create us to torture us.
Really, the answer to most of your questions, is that he made us with free will.
He gave us free will to do whatever we please. And do we use it right? No.
All of these have consequences that we didn't know were coming.
Untill after the sin was commited. To go back to the free will thing, that relates with the deaths; it's still our fault. Everyone has the free will and somebody may have sinned by murder or so. Maybe God thought it was possibly that persons time.

[shopaholicoxxo]

He didn't create us to torture us.
Really, the answer to most of your questions, is that he made us with free will.
He gave us free will to do whatever we please. And do we use it right? No.
All of these have consequences that we didn't know were coming.
Untill after the sin was commited. To go back to the free will thing, that relates with the deaths; it's still our fault. Everyone has the free will and somebody may have sinned by murder or so. Maybe God thought it was possibly that persons time.
Just one last point - what about natural disasters such as tornados, earthquakes, etc. where many innocent people die? I don't think that's free will seeing as it is not humans who create these things. Or if you're born with some kind of deadly disease - that isn't free will. Why do diseases even exist; why would God put them on the Earth?

[smartchick]

Your beliefs aren't dumb, I'm sorry if I sounded harsh there I'm just frustrated because I really would love to believe in God but I'm just too skeptical.

But my point is, if there is a God, why shouldn't life be as perfect as he can possibly make it? What can possibly benefit from just letting miserable things happen, things that he could control according to the power he supposedly has?

I just have trouble grasping the fact that two people who made a stupid decision thousands of years ago decided the entirety of fate for mankind. It's not like if your great great great grandmother did something stupid, people would hold it against you today...


I'm pretty much done here because apparently I'm offending people which I'm reallyyyy trying not to, I'm just trying to understand why you believe in God and such, but apparently you guys are offended easily.

I'm not offended by the way.
I'm just telling you my opinion on the subject.
I can uderstand why you would have trouble understanding that, but have you not noticed that all humans think alike. (not referring to religions).
In any case, Eve wouldn't have been the only person to take an apple from the tree because a spectator told her to. Everyone is tempted to do something they're not supposed to. You can't honestly say you haven't.

[shopaholicoxxo]

I'm not offended by the way.
I'm just telling you my opinion on the subject.
I can uderstand why you would have trouble understanding that, but have you not noticed that all humans think alike. (not referring to religions).
In any case, Eve wouldn't have been the only person to take an apple from the tree because a spectator told her to. Everyone is tempted to do something they're not supposed to. You can't honestly say you haven't. I'm glad cause I really don't want to make people mad. ): I'm just trying to understand it all.

Of course I have, but I'm pretty sure if God told me not to do something, I wouldn't do it. Haha. I just think it's unfair that two people had the power to decide something for the rest of the upcoming people on Earth... God gave us our own free will to make decisions, so why couldn't we all make a decision for ourselves?

[smartchick]

Just one last point - what about natural disasters such as tornados, earthquakes, etc. where many innocent people die? I don't think that's free will seeing as it is not humans who create these things. Or if you're born with some kind of deadly disease - that isn't free will. Why do diseases even exist; why would God put them on the Earth?

Mother Nature! :P
When my sister was younger, she used to say that the natural diasters and rain were emotions of God. If he was sad, he would cry, then it would rain. If he was happy about the way we were acting, then it would be sunny that day. My point is we don't always know about the weather and conditions on earth. Your just supposed to trust in the Bible and God's word. Because he does know what he is doing. With diseases, we can benefit from that later. Hes working up to something we are going to need later in life. I'm not saying I agree with diseases, but there's a reason for everything.

[tanningbry]

i'm sorry, but there's other forms of Christainity
other than Jahova's Witness, so could you pease respect that?
thanks.

I do respect that. I just said I'm a Jehovah's Witness.

[inluv]

I understand it completely because a lot of my family on my mom's side is christian while my father's side is muslim. I'm muslim so of course there are going to be some things that I might not get, like when some people go against what it says in the Bible or whatever...

[smartchick]

I'm glad cause I really don't want to make people mad. ): I'm just trying to understand it all.

Of course I have, but I'm pretty sure if God told me not to do something, I wouldn't do it. Haha. I just think it's unfair that two people had the power to decide something for the rest of the upcoming people on Earth... God gave us our own free will to make decisions, so why couldn't we all make a decision for ourselves?

Think of God as your parent right now.
If they told you not to eat a slice of cake in the fridge would you?
When your brother and other reletives can have a slice. I know cake is a horrible example, but just go with it. Your thinking well why can they have a slice and I can't? Well, they're your parents so why don't we listen? What if they told you not to go to a party that all of your friends are going to? Or not to buy a dress that you've been saving up for for forever. We don't always listen when we know we should. He did give us free will, but he knows we all think alike. Which is my main point.

[tanningbry]

but I think religion is simply the most stupid, most ignorant, most uneducated, most mindless custom ever developed in the pitiful spiritually-desperate human brain.
What?! How can that be? The most important thing is religion. God should be worshiped because he didn't have to create us in the first place. He didn't need too he could have just created planets instead. That's why he should be worshiped because we should at least give something back. Did you ever think about that? When my mom explained that I thought it was very true. I don't mean to get on your nerves or anything just wanted to point that out.... Or "put in my 2 cents".

[tanningbry]

Just one last point - what about natural disasters such as tornados, earthquakes, etc. where many innocent people die? I don't think that's free will seeing as it is not humans who create these things. Or if you're born with some kind of deadly disease - that isn't free will. Why do diseases even exist; why would God put them on the Earth?
Oh my. Yes, I know why you and others feel that way. Since I can't really show you anything in real life, you should try asking a Jehovah's Witness or listen to them when they come to your door. They can show you from the Bible. Unless, you have a Bible you can try to search for it.

[shopaholicoxxo]

Mother Nature! :P
When my sister was younger, she used to say that the natural diasters and rain were emotions of God. If he was sad, he would cry, then it would rain. If he was happy about the way we were acting, then it would be sunny that day. My point is we don't always know about the weather and conditions on earth. Your just supposed to trust in the Bible and God's word. Because he does know what he is doing. With diseases, we can benefit from that later. Hes working up to something we are going to need later in life. I'm not saying I agree with diseases, but there's a reason for everything.And this is exactly why I don't believe in God, lol. No offense to your religion at all but I'm just way too skeptical to believe someone when they say "because you just have to trust God," etc. It is very difficult for me to believe someone who's actions IMO don't make much sense.

Think of God as your parent right now.
If they told you not to eat a slice of cake in the fridge would you?
When your brother and other reletives can have a slice. I know cake is a horrible example, but just go with it. Your thinking well why can they have a slice and I can't? Well, they're your parents so why don't we listen? What if they told you not to go to a party that all of your friends are going to? Or not to buy a dress that you've been saving up for for forever. We don't always listen when we know we should. He did give us free will, but he knows we all think alike. Which is my main point.That does make sense, but I don't really understand how that connects to so many bad things happening in the world.

Oh my. Yes, I know why you and others feel that way. Since I can't really show you anything in real life, you should try asking a Jehovah's Witness or listen to them when they come to your door. They can show you from the Bible. Unless, you have a Bible you can try to search for it.Oh, you're a Jehovah's Witness? That's the one that doesn't celebrate any holidays, right?

Just curious, why exactly do you not celebrate holidays?

[j-blue-stars]

I am somewhat familiar with the Bible, seeing as I used to be Catholic, though admittedly not as familiar as I should have been.

I understand what you are saying, but I'm not sure why God would allow us, would want us, to suffer. He is the one who created us (in your opinion), correct? So why does he create us only to make us suffer? Of course not all people do and some people have wonderful lives, but there are many people who have it off so bad. Obviously, God has the power to make our lives good, so why does he not exercise it? I'm not saying he should give everyone $120318922302938 and everything they'd ever want. That's unrealistic and I know that, and I know that going through certain hard things in your life does make you stronger and can even be a good thing. But why does he allow some people to suffer so much, so much to the point where they actually want to die regardless of whether they believe in heaven because they are so fed up with their own life? Why do so many innocent people die young, leaving their families and friends in complete disarray?

Frankly, I'd find it much easier to believe in God if he actually seemed to care about us. People always say he does help us, but I don't see anything changing for the better.
aw.. it kinda.. hurts to see that u would believe he WANTS to hurt us..
i can positively say that he does NOT force us to hurt nor wants us to suffer
I think your beliefs make perfectly good sense since they're exactly what
I believe too anyway. :P In no way do I expect me life to be perfect.
What I know is that the challenges that God gives us, he knows we can handle them.
It's like a test for the next part in our life. Its prepearing us for what we're going to need later. He knows we can do it, or he wouldn't have given us the task in the first place. And when it's finally time for us to pass away, we'll know that everything will be alright.
thank u :P
Your beliefs aren't dumb, I'm sorry if I sounded harsh there I'm just frustrated because I really would love to believe in God but I'm just too skeptical.

But my point is, if there is a God, why shouldn't life be as perfect as he can possibly make it? What can possibly benefit from just letting miserable things happen, things that he could control according to the power he supposedly has?

I just have trouble grasping the fact that two people who made a stupid decision thousands of years ago decided the entirety of fate for mankind. It's not like if your great great great grandmother did something stupid, people would hold it against you today...


I'm pretty much done here because apparently I'm offending people which I'm reallyyyy trying not to, I'm just trying to understand why you believe in God and such, but apparently you guys are offended easily.
i guess i dont have answers to that..
all i kno is that he knows what hes doing.. and i have FAITH.. which keeps me from asking the same questions u are asking.. i guess... if ur skeptical about things its cuz u need physical proof?
lol theres actually a book that gives scientific proof of god.. but anyways. i havent read it so i cant say anything about it..

[shopaholicoxxo]

aw.. it kinda.. hurts to see that u would believe he WANTS to hurt us..
i can positively say that he does NOT force us to hurt nor wants us to suffer

thank u :P

i guess i dont have answers to that..
all i kno is that he knows what hes doing.. and i have FAITH.. which keeps me from asking the same questions u are asking.. i guess... if ur skeptical about things its cuz u need physical proof?
lol theres actually a book that gives scientific proof of god.. but anyways. i havent read it so i cant say anything about it..I definitely don't think that. That's the main reason why I don't believe in a God because I don't think things like this would be happening if there were one.

And yeah, a lot of the reasons that I'm skeptical about religion is because I do need some kind of proof, even if it's just a slight amount and I also don't find a lot of things about religion very logical either seeing as the answer to many things is "because God said so."

That being said, it would be really interesting to read something with scientific proof that God exists because I'm very very open-minded to the notion that there is a God. For all I know, there really is some logical reason why God lets all these things happen, etc. and I just can't fully grasp it right now. Perhaps I'll believe in Christianity again, someday.

[Miley&HannahFan]

personally i do believe i'm christian
i dont go to church all the time and stuff
but i go to a christian school...people of other religions are allowed there too tho
i believe in God and Jesus Christ
but technically the Bible is not all true
no one has actual proof that everything in the Bible actually happened
because the Bible was written long after the time of Christ
i'm not trying to go against anyones belief
but that is the way i see things..
although none of this changes the fact that i am christian and i believe in God.
i also dont think that anyone can be perfct even if you are christian
we are all going to make mistakes and God knew that
thats why he wanted to send his son to save us

[LukkiStar]

What?! How can that be? The most important thing is religion. God should be worshiped because he didn't have to create us in the first place. He didn't need too he could have just created planets instead. That's why he should be worshiped because we should at least give something back. Did you ever think about that? When my mom explained that I thought it was very true. I don't mean to get on your nerves or anything just wanted to point that out.... Or "put in my 2 cents".
If you don't mind my saying so, that's kind of a bit rude. It is your opinion that religion is the most important thing. And in your life, it might be, which is fine. But it doesn't have to for everyone. Not everyone believes that God created us. I'm not saying that he didn't, but you can prove that he did about as well as I can prove that he didn't. So please just keep in mind that we all have different opinions and are entitled to them, and that no one is really right or wrong.

[SaintSaturn]

For Shopaholicoxxo,
Some people believe that God is a loving God because they believe he saved their soul. I realize that you just can't understand why a loving God would let innocent people die in disasters and whatnot, but most Christians have accepted the fact that the world is not a perfect place. God has consistently said that his people are to be in the world and not of it. Basically this means that the Earth is not our true home. Nobody knows exactly why bad things happen here on the planet Earth. For Christians, we just make peace with the fact that one day we will be in a place that is free from suffering and death.

[tanningbry]

If you don't mind my saying so, that's kind of a bit rude. It is your opinion that religion is the most important thing. And in your life, it might be, which is fine. But it doesn't have to for everyone. Not everyone believes that God created us. I'm not saying that he didn't, but you can prove that he did about as well as I can prove that he didn't. So please just keep in mind that we all have different opinions and are entitled to them, and that no one is really right or wrong.
I wasn't trying to be rude. It's just what I was taught.

[sing2theLord]

^^i love this post!

[shopaholicoxxo]

For Shopaholicoxxo,
Some people believe that God is a loving God because they believe he saved their soul. I realize that you just can't understand why a loving God would let innocent people die in disasters and whatnot, but most Christians have accepted the fact that the world is not a perfect place. God has consistently said that his people are to be in the world and not of it. Basically this means that the Earth is not our true home. Nobody knows exactly why bad things happen here on the planet Earth. For Christians, we just make peace with the fact that one day we will be in a place that is free from suffering and death.And I completely respect that. (:

I'm not quite sure if I can believe it myself, seeing as I'm just a skeptic by nature, but I admit that it is a very appealing concept and I very much hope that my beliefs as an agnostic are wrong, as odd as that sounds.

[tanningbry]

Oh, you're a Jehovah's Witness? That's the one that doesn't celebrate any holidays, right?

Just curious, why exactly do you not celebrate holidays?
Yeah, we don't celebrate holidays at all. Not any birthdays either. We don't celebrate them because of the origin. If you researched some holidays, you'd be surprised to see that they came from Pagan customs. They were mixed together. That doesn't make it just Christian anymore.

[shopaholicoxxo]

Yeah, we don't celebrate holidays at all. Not any birthdays either. We don't celebrate them because of the origin. If you researched some holidays, you'd be surprised to see that they came from Pagan customs. They were mixed together. That doesn't make it just Christian anymore.
Ah okay, well that kind of makes sense even though I'd be really upset if I didn't get to celebrate my birthday and Christmas. :P

[tanningbry]

Ah okay, well that kind of makes sense even though I'd be really upset if I didn't get to celebrate my birthday and Christmas. :P
I know it's tough to change.

[j-blue-stars]

For Shopaholicoxxo,
Some people believe that God is a loving God because they believe he saved their soul. I realize that you just can't understand why a loving God would let innocent people die in disasters and whatnot, but most Christians have accepted the fact that the world is not a perfect place. God has consistently said that his people are to be in the world and not of it. Basically this means that the Earth is not our true home. Nobody knows exactly why bad things happen here on the planet Earth. For Christians, we just make peace with the fact that one day we will be in a place that is free from suffering and death.
thats exactly what i was trying to say lol :P

[(sic)]

lol its 3 days later..
well in the 3rd day..

Right, in the third day. Friday being the first, Saturday the second, and Sunday the third. From Friday to Sunday is 2 days.

Lol not that it really matters...

[jasondolleylover1]

mk, well my computer's retarded and decided
to shut down on me a while ago, so here's just a little of what i have to say.

first off, thank you sooo much kat for posting the 10 Commandments.
everyone needed to see that, especially in today's language.
and thanks embee for posting that story about ''kate'' and ''jake''
and hypocrites.. everyone needs to wirk on that, also
=]

now to the quotes...
Just one last point - what about natural disasters such as tornados, earthquakes, etc. where many innocent people die? I don't think that's free will seeing as it is not humans who create these things. Or if you're born with some kind of deadly disease - that isn't free will. Why do diseases even exist; why would God put them on the Earth?
thats hard for us Christians to explain to people
that don't believe in God, for example, you. someone already mentioned the
thing about Adam and Eve, and its true-- archaeologists have found
the Garden of Eden in Israel somewhere, but anywho. Eve ate the apple of
the Forbidden Tree, then tempted Adam to eat. he did with her, and nothing's
been perfect ever since. you may not believe that, but i personally, and all other Christians
that i've met, do.
Think of God as your parent right now.
If they told you not to eat a slice of cake in the fridge would you?
When your brother and other reletives can have a slice. I know cake is a horrible example, but just go with it. Your thinking well why can they have a slice and I can't? Well, they're your parents so why don't we listen? What if they told you not to go to a party that all of your friends are going to? Or not to buy a dress that you've been saving up for for forever. We don't always listen when we know we should. He did give us free will, but he knows we all think alike. Which is my main point.
that's a really good analogy, thingy!
nice thinking!
And this is exactly why I don't believe in God, lol. No offense to your religion at all but I'm just way too skeptical to believe someone when they say "because you just have to trust God," etc. It is very difficult for me to believe someone who's actions IMO don't make much sense.
God does everything for a reason.
even if you don't think so, you HAVE to place all your
trust in Him, and never doubt you're making the wrong
decisions.
Your beliefs aren't dumb, I'm sorry if I sounded harsh there I'm just frustrated because I really would love to believe in God but I'm just too skeptical.

But my point is, if there is a God, why shouldn't life be as perfect as he can possibly make it? What can possibly benefit from just letting miserable things happen, things that he could control according to the power he supposedly has?

I just have trouble grasping the fact that two people who made a stupid decision thousands of years ago decided the entirety of fate for mankind. It's not like if your great great great grandmother did something stupid, people would hold it against you today...
well that's what we Christians believe.
then and forevermore will life be unfair.
blame your ancestors.
personally i do believe i'm christian
i dont go to church all the time and stuff
but i go to a christian school...people of other religions are allowed there too tho
i believe in God and Jesus Christ
but technically the Bible is not all true
no one has actual proof that everything in the Bible actually happened
because the Bible was written long after the time of Christ
i'm not trying to go against anyones belief
but that is the way i see things..
although none of this changes the fact that i am christian and i believe in God.
i also dont think that anyone can be perfct even if you are christian
we are all going to make mistakes and God knew that
thats why he wanted to send his son to save us
no it wasnt. can you tell me how it was
written after Him? He was still making very
frequent appearances to people in Jeruslaem.
for example, Saul/Paul. or even David.
Yeah, we don't celebrate holidays at all. Not any birthdays either. We don't celebrate them because of the origin. If you researched some holidays, you'd be surprised to see that they came from Pagan customs. They were mixed together. That doesn't make it just Christian anymore.
wow.. i find that just a little bit strange..
how is Easter and Christmas Pagan?

Lol not that it really matters...
actually, it matters alot. esus rose on the third day after He
was crucified.

[Rockin_Miley]

i cant say anything on the subject because I would not be secure enough in my response.

I have only been to church (i think, Im not sure) like ONCE in my life with my sisters friends, family. Never with my own. Its been years since i ever went to a church [in general].

[Rockin_Miley]

Well, actually I think (from reading the threads) that no matter what most feel is right or wrong, you should believe what you truly believe. Not what others want you to believe . Its your life. You can live it believing what ever you want. ;)

[jasondolleylover1]

totally cj

[LukkiStar]

I just want to share a little story that happened to me that kind of really makes me wonder about God and all that stuff.
Last year my mom was walking the dogs in the woods, and one of the dogs disappeared for awhile and then came back limping. So she brought him in, and we tried to see what was wrong with him, and we discovered that there was a bone sticking out of his leg. We of course immediately took him to the vet. We could see very clearly that it was a bone sticking out of his leg, and 3 vets looked at it. They were going to keep him there overnight and then do surgery the next day. Later that day they called us and said "um...your dog is fine....it wasn't a bone at all, it was just a piece of wood stuck in his leg...." which was absolutely insane because me, my mom, and 3 vets saw that it was a bone. That's really like the only "miracle" that I've ever witnessed, but it makes me think that amazing things really can happen and that there really could be some kind of "force" or something up there.
Is that proof of God? I don't know. But if that's not, what is?
I know it seems like the most ridiculous story ever, but it really makes me think that there's SOMETHING out there even if it's not the God described in the bible or whatever.

[tanningbry]

wow.. i find that just a little bit strange..
how is Easter and Christmas Pagan?

I'll try to look it up on the computer since I can't show you in real life.
Can't find anything on Google. Think about it........ where did Santa come from when it's about Christ? And why would you celebrate his birth when he didn't do anything until he was dead? Try looking in a real encyclopedia because I seriously can't explain on the computer.

[NancyDrew]

I just want to share a little story that happened to me that kind of really makes me wonder about God and all that stuff.
Last year my mom was walking the dogs in the woods, and one of the dogs disappeared for awhile and then came back limping. So she brought him in, and we tried to see what was wrong with him, and we discovered that there was a bone sticking out of his leg. We of course immediately took him to the vet. We could see very clearly that it was a bone sticking out of his leg, and 3 vets looked at it. They were going to keep him there overnight and then do surgery the next day. Later that day they called us and said "um...your dog is fine....it wasn't a bone at all, it was just a piece of wood stuck in his leg...." which was absolutely insane because me, my mom, and 3 vets saw that it was a bone. That's really like the only "miracle" that I've ever witnessed, but it makes me think that amazing things really can happen and that there really could be some kind of "force" or something up there.
Is that proof of God? I don't know. But if that's not, what is?
I know it seems like the most ridiculous story ever, but it really makes me think that there's SOMETHING out there even if it's not the God described in the bible or whatever.

Yes. I think that is. Wow. That's a great encounter. :D

[*~MileyCyrus#1Fan~*]

I just want to share a little story that happened to me that kind of really makes me wonder about God and all that stuff.
Last year my mom was walking the dogs in the woods, and one of the dogs disappeared for awhile and then came back limping. So she brought him in, and we tried to see what was wrong with him, and we discovered that there was a bone sticking out of his leg. We of course immediately took him to the vet. We could see very clearly that it was a bone sticking out of his leg, and 3 vets looked at it. They were going to keep him there overnight and then do surgery the next day. Later that day they called us and said "um...your dog is fine....it wasn't a bone at all, it was just a piece of wood stuck in his leg...." which was absolutely insane because me, my mom, and 3 vets saw that it was a bone. That's really like the only "miracle" that I've ever witnessed, but it makes me think that amazing things really can happen and that there really could be some kind of "force" or something up there.
Is that proof of God? I don't know. But if that's not, what is?
I know it seems like the most ridiculous story ever, but it really makes me think that there's SOMETHING out there even if it's not the God described in the bible or whatever.

That's awesome. :D
I remember, at my old house. We were leaving for church,
and we locked all the doors SHUT. We went outside, and
my mom was like "I forgot my keys." They were in the house,
and it's not like we could drive anywhere. So we just stood
there, banging on the door, hoping for some reason we would
be able to get in. We had no idea WHAT to do.
Then I got this insane idea, I have no idea what motivated
me to do this, but there was a little crack in the fencing
where, if your thin enough, you can get through it to the
backyard. That's how our dog would usually get out. So
I squeezed myself through, and I see the backdoor standing
WIDE open. And I was SO sure that I had shut it. I remembered
shutting it closed and locking it. And there it was, standing
wide open. I run up and unlock the front door and my mom comes in
I told her what happened and we were both like WTF. She was like,
"That is SO creepy..." and I was like, "I think it was God."
I don't think I'll ever forget it lol.
Sorry, just thought I'd share that lol.

[destiny hope cyrus fan]

I'm Christian and I don't go to church, and I do not read the bible, it confuses me.
Sunday school was is a terrific bore. Though there is this animated show where the episodes, tell stories in the bible, it has dialog so it helps me understand.

[j-blue-stars]

personally i do believe i'm christian
i dont go to church all the time and stuff
but i go to a christian school...people of other religions are allowed there too tho
i believe in God and Jesus Christ
but technically the Bible is not all true
no one has actual proof that everything in the Bible actually happened
because the Bible was written long after the time of Christ
i'm not trying to go against anyones belief
but that is the way i see things..
although none of this changes the fact that i am christian and i believe in God.
i also dont think that anyone can be perfct even if you are christian
we are all going to make mistakes and God knew that
thats why he wanted to send his son to save us
yeah i agree with that last part u said..
but also..
what catholics are supposed to believe(i say catholics cuz i dont kno if any other christian religion believes this) is that the apostles were like.. inspired/enlightened by the holy spirit when it fell over them which kinda brought them the strength to spread out the news of jesus and god and stuff.. and they also wrote about it.. they wrote stories they lived while jesus was on earth and stuff.. and later on it was all composed into a book which is now the bible
(well i THINK thats what we're supposed to believe {catholics}) not saying we ALL have to believe that..
I just want to share a little story that happened to me that kind of really makes me wonder about God and all that stuff.
Last year my mom was walking the dogs in the woods, and one of the dogs disappeared for awhile and then came back limping. So she brought him in, and we tried to see what was wrong with him, and we discovered that there was a bone sticking out of his leg. We of course immediately took him to the vet. We could see very clearly that it was a bone sticking out of his leg, and 3 vets looked at it. They were going to keep him there overnight and then do surgery the next day. Later that day they called us and said "um...your dog is fine....it wasn't a bone at all, it was just a piece of wood stuck in his leg...." which was absolutely insane because me, my mom, and 3 vets saw that it was a bone. That's really like the only "miracle" that I've ever witnessed, but it makes me think that amazing things really can happen and that there really could be some kind of "force" or something up there.
Is that proof of God? I don't know. But if that's not, what is?
I know it seems like the most ridiculous story ever, but it really makes me think that there's SOMETHING out there even if it's not the God described in the bible or whatever.
:o thats osm
That's awesome. :D
I remember, at my old house. We were leaving for church,
and we locked all the doors SHUT. We went outside, and
my mom was like "I forgot my keys." They were in the house,
and it's not like we could drive anywhere. So we just stood
there, banging on the door, hoping for some reason we would
be able to get in. We had no idea WHAT to do.
Then I got this insane idea, I have no idea what motivated
me to do this, but there was a little crack in the fencing
where, if your thin enough, you can get through it to the
backyard. That's how our dog would usually get out. So
I squeezed myself through, and I see the backdoor standing
WIDE open. And I was SO sure that I had shut it. I remembered
shutting it closed and locking it. And there it was, standing
wide open. I run up and unlock the front door and my mom comes in
I told her what happened and we were both like WTF. She was like,
"That is SO creepy..." and I was like, "I think it was God."
I don't think I'll ever forget it lol.
Sorry, just thought I'd share that lol.
:o

[niyomi10]

Okay but do you realize how many times the Bible has been re-written? I mean think about it...it started in what Hebrew? and not to mention, (waits for attacks) many "Christian" religions have taken Jehovah God's name out of the Bible which was his holy book to begin with, and have replaced it with God and The Lord. So, based on that alone one could very easily assume that parts of it have been rewritten to better suit certain religions. As far as shoving Christianity down someone's throat...I believe that everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and we are not in the position to change their beliefs. Also, mostly the people who do that are called "bible thumpers" and that is their business. Basically, just do whatever suits you and don't worry about what everyone else does. Not saying you're doing that, but alot of people do, do that. Don't make yourself one of them. If you do, you'll sorely regret it. Enough said there...Wanna know how? go find out. xD

i get what your saying.
but i think that being a christian is something you
want to do. not something your forced to. i chose
my decision to be a pentecostal & i know i did it right.
i don't care what people say about us. just because
we don't cut our hair, wear pants or mini skirts, or any
of that other stuff. i don't want to be with the 'crowd'
i'm glad i'm different from everybody else on here.
i'm totally not ashamed. but there are different versions
of the bible. they have written so many, its like impossible!
so i stick with the true one. the king james version.. i'm just saying,
talking about christianity & religion is like a touchy subject for some people.
cause we don't all believe the same thing. we have our own
beliefs.

[dontwalkaway]

to be honest that is the one thing that has always bugged me about my religion, that entirely good people might go to hell just because they aren't christian.... i don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me that god would put good people through eternal suffering purely because they didn't form a relationship with Him... i don't understand that and i don't think i ever will, but it's always bugged me

[jasondolleylover1]

most perfect sermon ever that my pastor made today.
we're doing a series about the verse in Isiah that says "And He will
be called Wonderful Councelor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, the Prince
of Peace". today's sermon was about how Jesus is the Prince of Peace, and Pastor
Steve says the most amazing thing today. it went someting like this
"This time of year is when most of the stress happens, families get together,
presents, dinners, but some of those things are the bad kind of stress. when
some peopple go to see their families, some have passed on. some parents can't afford
to give their children a present, or even a dinner. why does all this bad stuff
happen? because God gives us a choice. whenever we grow up to be
the age of the youth here in the second row," [that's where i sit,] "we have a choice
to either follow God, or ignore Him."
i firmly believe that this is true.
Phillipians 4 13 : "I can do all things through Christ, who gives me the strength."
I'll try to look it up on the computer since I can't show you in real life.
Can't find anything on Google. Think about it........ where did Santa come from when it's about Christ? And why would you celebrate his birth when he didn't do anything until he was dead? Try looking in a real encyclopedia because I seriously can't explain on the computer.
that' really confusing. but ok
I'm Christian and I don't go to church, and I do not read the bible, it confuses me.
Sunday school was is a terrific bore. Though there is this animated show where the episodes, tell stories in the bible, it has dialog so it helps me understand.

i reccommend the Message version
of the Bible, or the New Living Translation

[Michael217]

to be honest that is the one thing that has always bugged me about my religion, that entirely good people might go to hell just because they aren't christian.... i don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me that god would put good people through eternal suffering purely because they didn't form a relationship with Him... i don't understand that and i don't think i ever will, but it's always bugged me

*note: I'm writing about Catholic teaching.*

Well, as a Catholic, I know that the Church does not teach that anyone who is not Christian will go to hell. Aside from the Sacrament of Baptism (with water and the Holy Spirit), which was instituted by Christ himself, there are two other kinds of "baptism", namely: baptism of desire and baptism of blood.

The following passage is quoted from newadvent.org (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm):

"The Fathers (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06001a.htm) and theologians (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14580a.htm) frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13295a.htm). The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06689a.htm) which remits sins (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm). It is the teaching (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05075b.htm) of the Catholic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05551b.htm) life (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09238c.htm) may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood.
The baptism of desire

The baptism of desire (baptismus flaminis) is a perfect contrition (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04337a.htm) of heart, and every act of perfect charity or pure love (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09397a.htm) of God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm) which contains, at least implicitly, a desire (votum) of baptism. The Latin word flamen is used because Flamen is a name for the Holy Ghost (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm), Whose special office it is to move the heart to love (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09397a.htm) God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm) and to conceive penitence for sin (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm). The "baptism of the Holy Ghost (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm)" is a term employed in the third century by the anonymous author of the book "De Rebaptismate". The efficacy of this baptism of desire to supply the place of the baptism of water, as to its principal effect, is proved (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12454c.htm) from the words of Christ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm). After He had declared the necessity (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10733a.htm) of baptism (John 3 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/joh003.htm)), He promised (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12453a.htm) justifying grace (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06701a.htm) for acts of charity or perfect contrition (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04337a.htm) (John 14 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/joh014.htm)): "He that loveth (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09397a.htm) Me, shall be loved (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09397a.htm) of my Father: and I will love (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09397a.htm) him and will manifest myself to him." And again: "If any one love (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09397a.htm) me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09397a.htm) him, and we will come to him, and will make our abode with him." Since these texts declare that justifying grace (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06701a.htm) is bestowed on account of acts of perfect charity or contrition (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04337a.htm), it is evident that these acts supply the place of baptism as to its principal effect, the remission of sins (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm). This doctrine (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05075b.htm) is set forth clearly by the Council of Trent (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15030c.htm). In the fourteenth session (cap. iv) the council teaches that contrition (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04337a.htm) is sometimes perfected by charity, and reconciles man (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09580c.htm) to God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm), before the Sacrament of Penance (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm) is received. In the fourth chapter of the sixth session, in speaking of the necessity (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10733a.htm) of baptism, it says that men (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09580c.htm) can not obtain original justice "except by the washing of regeneration (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12714a.htm) or its desire" (voto). The same doctrine (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05075b.htm) is taught by Pope Innocent III (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08013a.htm) (cap. Debitum, iv, De Bapt.), and the contrary propositions are condemned by Popes (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm) Pius V (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12130a.htm) and Gregory XII (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07001a.htm), in proscribing the 31st and 33rd propositions of Baius (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02209c.htm).
We have already alluded to the funeral oration pronounced by St. Ambrose (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01383c.htm) over the Emperor Valentinian II (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15255a.htm), a catechumen (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03430b.htm). The doctrine (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05075b.htm) of the baptism of desire is here clearly set forth. St. Ambrose (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01383c.htm) asks: "Did he not obtain the grace (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06689a.htm) which he desired? Did he not obtain what he asked for? Certainly he obtained it because he asked for it." St. Augustine (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02084a.htm) (On Baptism, Against the Donatists, IV.22 (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/14084.htm)) and St. Bernard (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02498d.htm) (Ep. lxxvii, ad H. de S. Victore) likewise discourse in the same sense concerning the baptism of desire. If it be said that this doctrine (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05075b.htm) contradicts the universal law (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09053a.htm) of baptism made by Christ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) (John 3 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/joh003.htm)), the answer is that the lawgiver has made an exception (John 14 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/joh014.htm)) in favor of those who have the baptism of desire. Neither would it be a consequence of this doctrine (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05075b.htm) that a person (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11726a.htm) justified (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08573a.htm) by the baptism of desire would thereby be dispensed (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05041a.htm) from seeking after the baptism of water when the latter became a possibility. For, as has already been explained the baptismus flaminis contains the votum of receiving the baptismus aquæ. It is true (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15073a.htm) that some of the Fathers of the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06001a.htm) arraign severely those who content themselves with the desire of receiving the sacrament (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13295a.htm) of regeneration (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12714a.htm), but they are speaking of catechumens (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03430b.htm) who of their own accord delay the reception of baptism from unpraiseworthy motives. Finally, it is to be noted that only adults are capable of receiving the baptism of desire.
The baptism of blood

The baptism of blood (baptismus sanquinis) is the obtaining of the grace (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06689a.htm) of justification (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08573a.htm) by suffering martyrdom (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09736b.htm) for the faith (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05752c.htm) of Christ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm). The term "washing of blood" (lavacrum sanguinis) is used by Tertullian (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm) (On Baptism 16 (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0321.htm)) to distinguish this species of regeneration (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12714a.htm) from the "washing of water" (lavacrum aquæ). "We have a second washing", he says "which is one and the same [with the first], namely the washing of blood." St. Cyprian (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04583b.htm) (Epistle 73 (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050673.htm)) speaks of "the most glorious (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06585a.htm) and greatest baptism of blood" (sanguinis baptismus). St. Augustine (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02084a.htm) (City of God 13.7 (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/120113.htm)) says: "When any die for the confession of Christ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) without having received the washing of regeneration (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12714a.htm), it avails as much for the remission of their sins (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm) as if they had been washed in the sacred font of baptism (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02274a.htm)."
The Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) grounds her belief (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02408b.htm) in the efficacy of the baptism of blood on the fact that Christ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) makes a general statement of the saving power of martyrdom (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09736b.htm) in the tenth chapter of St. Matthew (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/mat010.htm): "Every one therefore that shall confess me before men, I will also confess him before my Father who is in heaven (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm)" (verse 32 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/mat010.htm#verse32)); and: "He that shall lose his life for me shall find it" (verse 39 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/mat010.htm#verse39)). It is pointed out that these texts are so broadly worded as to include even infants, especially the latter text. That the former text also applies to them, has been constantly maintained by the Fathers (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06001a.htm), who declare that if infants can not confess Christ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) with the mouth, they can by act (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01115a.htm). Tertullian (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm) (Against the Valentinians 2 (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0314.htm)) speaks of the infants slaughtered by Herod (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07419a.htm) as martyrs (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09736b.htm), and this has been the constant teaching of the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm).
Another evidence of the mind of the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) as to the efficacy of the baptism of blood is found in the fact that she never prays (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12345b.htm) for martyrs (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09736b.htm). Her opinion is well voiced by St. Augustine (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02084a.htm) (Tractate 74 on the Gospel of John (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1701074.htm)): "He does an injury to a martyr (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09736b.htm) who prays (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12345b.htm) for him." This shows that martyrdom (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09736b.htm) is believed (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02408b.htm) to remit all sin (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm) and all punishment due to sin (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm). Later theologians (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14580a.htm) commonly maintain that the baptism of blood justifies adult martyrs (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09736b.htm) independently of an act of charity or perfect contrition (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04337a.htm), and, as it were, ex opere operato, though, of course, they must have attrition (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02065a.htm) for past sins (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm). The reason is that if perfect charity, or contrition (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04337a.htm), were required in martyrdom (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09736b.htm), the distinction between the baptism of blood and the baptism of desire would be a useless one. Moreover, as it must be conceded that infant martyrs (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09736b.htm) are justified (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08573a.htm) without an act of charity, of which they are incapable, there is no solid reason for denying the same privilege (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12436b.htm) to adults. (Cf. Francisco Suárez (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14319a.htm), De Bapt., disp. xxxix.)"

[Marauder]

PEOPLE HAVE THE WRONG IDEA=FACT.
as a catholic/christian i know what it is ;D

ITS STORY TIME!!!!!
once upon a time , me and my mom went to the supermarket , the front of the car started burning.
so we got outside the car , the firefighters didnt come or anything.
and then MIRACLE!!!!!! a car full of water was on the highway and helped us.
the car motor DID burn , it would have exploded, it should have exploded , but it didnt.
no one was hurt at all.
and i saved my plushie donald.

[jasondolleylover1]

^^that's awesome..

[i_LUV_MiLEY]

i def. think that society basically considers Christians to be goody-too shoes rule followers. thats def not me. but i'm a Christian. i [try to] follow the rules b/c i want to b/c of my faith, not b/c i think i have to to be perfect!

[i_LUV_MiLEY]

to be honest that is the one thing that has always bugged me about my religion, that entirely good people might go to hell just because they aren't christian.... i don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me that god would put good people through eternal suffering purely because they didn't form a relationship with Him... i don't understand that and i don't think i ever will, but it's always bugged me

that def. frustrates me too. i've thought about that. but God is Absolute Truth... kinda like the goverments laws are Absolute Law. if you break them, you get a fine, go to prison, or are executed.
tho i dont necessarily think it is fair, i will say this: Jesus died ALL FOR OUR SAKE. He took up our sins, became a completely sinful man (only on the cross) and WENT TO HELL HIMSELF! if you dont accept Him, everything he did is in vain...useless, pointless, completely wasted. Jesus had to go to hell b/c he took up our sins, so we have to as well if we have unforgiven sins.
&& i know its crazy, but even the Bible says that God isnt always fair, but He is always just.

i do completely agree tho, that it doesnt make sense. but how often does God actually make sense??

[jasondolleylover1]

wow. that was probably one of the most
deep and truthful posts in tis forum.
great job kay

[LukkiStar]

that def. frustrates me too. i've thought about that. but God is Absolute Truth... kinda like the goverments laws are Absolute Law. if you break them, you get a fine, go to prison, or are executed.
tho i dont necessarily think it is fair, i will say this: Jesus died ALL FOR OUR SAKE. He took up our sins, became a completely sinful man (only on the cross) and WENT TO HELL HIMSELF! if you dont accept Him, everything he did is in vain...useless, pointless, completely wasted. Jesus had to go to hell b/c he took up our sins, so we have to as well if we have unforgiven sins.
&& i know its crazy, but even the Bible says that God isnt always fair, but He is always just.

i do completely agree tho, that it doesnt make sense. but how often does God actually make sense??
I just don't...understand that. The bible describes God to be loving. Most of the time at least. Let's say that someone was a pretty good person, but they were obviously not sin-free and lied to their parents or something rather insignificant like that and they never went to church, or didn't say "Gosh God, I'm sorry I did that..." then they'll go to hell. And if a mass-murderer murdered a hundred people then went to church and said "I didn't mean to God, my bad..." then they'd go to heaven. I just find that really hard to comprehend and believe.
wow. that was probably one of the most
deep and truthful posts in tis forum.
great job kay
This is one of the main things that bugs me about Christianity.
People think that they're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT because God said so.
They're not open to the idea that maybe people don't go to hell (or heaven for that matter), and they think their way is the only right way.
I'm not like trying to bring you down personally because I do respect your beliefs, I just have a hard time with understanding that only one religion is right.

[jasondolleylover1]

well it's not just the person has
to ask for forgiveness, they have
to ask God to come into their hearts.
but yeah, it confuses me sometimes too, but life
has naver been, nor will be fair, so we'll hve to live with it.

[Dreamward]

well it's not just the person has
to ask for forgiveness, they have
to ask God to come into their hearts.
but yeah, it confuses me sometimes too, but life
has naver been, nor will be fair, so we'll hve to live with it.

I thought religion was supposed to make life fair. IMO that's part of the whole point. That's why I'm Quaker, because we believe everyone is equal and will go to heaven.

[ChelseaJB]

I dont think that a lot of people have the wrong idea. I know that if someone says they are Christian and you say that to a person who goes to Church all the time they tell you, you aren't because you don't go to church. I believe in Jesus but I don't believe in God.

[dontwalkaway]

I thought religion was supposed to make life fair. IMO that's part of the whole point. That's why I'm Quaker, because we believe everyone is equal and will go to heaven.in general quakers are fierce i love them
plus the instant oatmeal is IMMENSE

[jasondolleylover1]

Chelsea, how can you beleave in Jesus
but not God? i think that's just weird
imo

[dontwalkaway]

i think she means that like she likes the things that jesus preached but doesn't believe in god per say.... because there's historical evidence that jesus existed, whether he was the son of god or not is up to your personal beliefs, but he did exist

[ChelseaJB]

i think she means that like she likes the things that jesus preached but doesn't believe in god per say.... because there's historical evidence that jesus existed, whether he was the son of god or not is up to your personal beliefs, but he did exist

yeah. I dont believe that a spirit could place a human in a body but I respect the people who do believe that. I do think there was a person, who could have been named Jesus, that preached christianity and got killed because of it

[mileyobsessed]

I don't believe you have to be baptised.
I believe that you need to believe that Jesus died on the cross to your save your sins, that he rose from the grave three days later, preached to his disciples, and then ascended into heaven.
As long as you "admit" that, "believe" in what I wrote about and "confess" it with your mouth, saying that you are a Christian, then I believe you've done the "abc"'s of becoming a Christian.
I believe you have to take those steps.

But, I believe the rest is up to you, entirely.

i agree, destinydreamer, but you sorta left out a big chunk , you see , you not only have to repent of your sins but you have to be committed to Him and not just say I gave my life and he'll take care of it. You have to stop sinning and get rid of habits causing you to sin. It's NOT an easy way to Heaven but from what I've heard it sure is worth it.

[jasondolleylover1]

i totally agree with that

[svgirl2013]

i was acctually thinking about this the other day
i was at church and my friend andy was like you have to be the model christian and i was like why and he told me it was because i was so good all the time and have never been kissed
he is christian too - maybe he sins more than me or something but that is stereotyping and its not right for religion.

[jasondolleylover1]

^^no. not at all.
personally, i've never even
had a boyriend, never been kissed,
and alot of the girls in the youth
look up to me, but at the same time,
the kids at my school think that's REALLY
weird. i really don't see how that's weird, but whatever.

[~*LotsOfSmiles*~]

I believe that all you have to do to be a christian is confess your sins, and believe Jesus died for you.
All of this stuff about doing the "right" or "wrong things", like "having to read the bible", etc, shouldn't be a thing that you have to do because you're a christian.
If you love Jesus with all of your heart and have felt the love that he has for you, then you would want to read the bible.
and yeah, to be a christian, you have to surrender your life to God and be willing to do whatever he wants for your life, and you need a relationship with him.
There's more to christianity than just going to church and reading the bible.